Yacht Listings - No Crew Cabin Pics?

"There are also a good percentage of buyers that would never think to even look at the crew quarters ..."

Very true, and that was my original point. If enough buyers cared there would be pictures. The lack of them doesn't impact sales so nobody bothers.

I have seen this happen. Try doing a service on the 1050 MAN's in the 61' Viking SC (flybridge). It takes an hour round trip just to remove the hatches, salon table, salon carpeting and put everything back with 2 guys. Not to mention all of the servicing has to be done hang down on your stomach. Not a fun job.

But that's the difference between a good broker and a not so good broker. How much time does it take to take pics of the crew quarters or engine room while you're taking pictures of everything else. If there are no pics of the engine room, I instantly assume it's a dissaster of a mess and thats why there are no pics. You see pics of the washer and dryer on every other listing, why not the crew quarters? One would assume the washer and dryer looks like a washer and dryer......

I'm reminded of my mother's words: "Better to be silent and thought a fool than open you mouth and prove it". By showing nothing you assume the engine room is a mess, etc. and you arrive with lowered expectations. That's one for the broker. Remember, they're not there to find you the right boat. They're there to sell a boat. 'Never give the prospect a reason to say no.'

I'm looking for a bigger/newer sportfish for my owner. He put me in charge of finding what he might like- and I know quite a few other SF captain who's owner have done the same thing. If I don't see E/R pics and Crew pics I'm turned off and less likely to send the info to my owner. That means we will not "arrive" at all.

The broker knows that the odds are still with him. If those areas are good it's pretty certain that so is the rest so you'll probably ask to see more. If they're bad you weren't going to come anyway, but you may if you don't know they're bad but see other areas. Sales is a science.

Sorry to disagree. The broker's first obligation is to discuss the vessel on which the client called, and then to try to find the right boat. While brokers are obviously interested in selling a boat, that doesn't mean sell any boat.

A reputable broker will represent the owner and the vessel fairly and accurately. If engine room pictures are lacking, then it's probably a statement on the engine room's condition. If the engine room needs maintenance, then either the broker explains that's why pictures are lacking or else the broker posts accurate pictures and the buyer/captain decides for himself. If the pictures are less than pretty, it's the broker's job to tell the owner to either get the detail work done or to have the price reflect the condition.

Judy Waldman
JW Yachts

Exactly. Not the buyer. That's not to say that if all are happy it's not a beautiful thing, but his job is to sell a boat and to show it in its best light to that end.

I don't mean to lower the tone of a good thread but after 25 years,the thinking about crew accommedation comes down to one thing. Sex.

I've worked on boats where the mast passed through the middle of the crew bunk, another that the crew shower was as powerfull as kittens' pee.

Ah, now here's the question, would you take a girl back to it?

I have been lucky enough to have had cabins that have a sofa and coffee table, broke that. One with a fold-out bed, broken twice (well the girls in Tahiti are quiet big).Another with no crew mess, ever tried to eat a salad on the foredeck with a girlfriend on a first date in 30 knots of wind?

So, please designers, think of the children.

Fish

"A reputable broker will represent the owner and the vessel fairly and accurately."

I don't mean to focus on one aspect of a good thread about pictures or the lack thereof, but I do want to dispel what I see is a misassumption: a broker can and should represent seller and buyer equally and fairly on all deals. The broker, as a central listing agent, has an obligation to use best efforts to sell the listed boat, but that doesn't mean to include not fairly and accurately representing the vessel.

Judy Waldman
JW Yachts

We all want to think of ourselves as ethical, but come on now Judy. Other than the medium, what exactly is the difference between someone selling yachts, real estate or used cars? You may try to make the buyer happy, but you don't represent them. Your job and responsibility is to sell the boat and to represent it in its best light.

There are many sides/issue here. NYcap brings the hard I live near 5 million people side: very little matters but the money, and that's what it boils down to. Yes a broker does not get paid unless the vessel sells. But there is more to life than money, and that is the other major side as Judy is espousing. We all have choices to make everyday, and some of those choices come down to saving $ or feeling better about our actions. Some folks end up on the saving money side more often, and others think money is less important than doing what they believe is the right thing. I avoid if I can those that strictly deal on the money side, and if a broker I know that is more on the money side I'll avoid them if I can. It's my personal way of voting that type of thinking to become less important. I bought a house in '07- there were many many deals, but I refused to buy from a "flipper". I ended up with a great house that I bought $50K under appraisal as when I viewed the house I told the owner what was important to me was the happiness of my wife and three boys. I explained I was gone at least 6 months a year as a traveling captain. She skipped other higher offers to sell me the house. Everyone's first order of business is to have a good life- if you believe money will bring that, fine. If you believe it's less important, also fine.

Their not salesmen. You could have also told a "buyer's broker" because they would be representing you (which is also why a buyer will often bring their captain along). But the selling broker is interested in one thing,i.e. selling that house or boat for as much as they can get because that's how they make their living. And that's not to say there is anything wrong with that. And if all sides of the deal are happy all the better. But there is a reason you and I are boat captains and not salesmen. Even when I help out dealerships my job is to show, explain and build interest. As soon as the topic gets to money I pass it off to the sales team.

Representing a boat in its best light should include descriptive write-ups and photos that encourage buyers to come see the vessel; it should include the broker talking intelligently and positively about the vessel's strong points. The broker markets the vessel but the boat should sell itself; then the broker finishes the sale through negotiations and paperwork. Representing a boat in its best light does not mean that you don't neglect to disclose significant repair or damage history at the appropriate time (at least before plane trip); it doesn't mean not answering questions honestly. You can't lie and you can't make it up. The onus of defining "best" is on the owner or his checkbook, the broker just presents it nicely. A broker is not obligated to sell the boat for the most money they can get - the owner ultimately decides what to accept or reject and a broker who bases the pricing of a boat in terms of what the end commission will be is not likely one who likes what he sees in the mirror.

Comparing selling yachts to other commodities is naive at best. You can compare apples to apples on houses, cars, or refrigerators; you can use consumer reports or comparables; you can price shop within the same neighborhood and get good appraisers and opinions on any like or very similar purchase; you can easily ascertain market value and resale value.

Very few yachts are identical. Their usage, hours, equipment, and location will vary to the extent that the market value is effected. A vessel has a lot more to survey than a house or car has to be examined, and surveys are usually "non-destructive" meaning they only go so deep. The burden of responsibility on the broker is fiduciary as well as ethical.

So a broker's job is to not only market and present the vessel well, but also has to know the systems, equipment, history, and "comparables" to be able to suggest or agree to a realistic market value, and then advise as to a realistic selling price. Once a buyer is involved, then the broker has to write the contract properly keeping everyone's best interest in mind as to prevent potential problems later, negotiate between usually two wealthy, successful men (translate: "used to getting their way"), then deal with lawyers, surveyors, captains. Then deal with the closings, money, and paperwork with or without attorneys. And then help with marinas, crew, fuel, repairs, and making recommendations that you gain nothing from but stick your neck out because the buyer is relying on your guidance and expertise.

Not quite the obligations of a real estate agent or a car salesman, neither of which particularly require many years experience both... on water and on land.

It's just a matter of degrees. There is at least that involved in brokering a midtown NYC office or apartment building. I just read about $60M and $27M deals falling through. Somehow I don't see the brokers working to get the buyer's deposits back as he would if he were representing them. It's all sales. Your expertise just determines the commodity. Again, nothing wrong with it, but if you're a buyer you have to understand who the players are and what to expect from each. Remember, Madoff is a broker.

" ...if I don't see adequate information presented in a listing, that could be the deciding factor in a call. The relationships that I have with my clients are long and they have a lot of trust in me to present them with the best options possible."

In that case, don't curse the darkness. If you want to present your clients with the best options, light a candle. Call the central broker and ask for digital photographs. Seems like a no brainer to me.

If I were looking for a 200-300 foot Yacht, I would have several different Brokers looking for me all over the map. The one who found a Yacht that fits my personal needs and those of my guests would get the business.
If your looking for large crew cabins and disqualifying Yachts based on the comfort or lack of, for the hired help, I doubt you will be selling any Yachts anytime soon.

Cheers to JWY!

My applause to you Judy, pure class! That is the finest of broker wisdom.

No one wants to discover a serious downer when walking the perfect boat dream, especially when you must travel significant distances to find it. Having been in real estate development for 25 years, I have never wanted to apologize for what the buyer saw. Save a trip, for them and yourself, and represent the girl for what she is, not what words (or missing images) can cause one to imagine.

Evan

Fallacy of false equivalence. Just because the word looks the same does not mean the definition or connotation is the same... Madoff Securities functioned as a Broker-Dealer which is essentially just the firm conducting the transaction. Madoff himself was a salesman, not a Registered Rep or Broker (and only recently filed as a Form ADV RIA).

The obvious insinuation of your statement is that a yacht broker is out to scam money from boat buyers without delivering any goods or service.