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Yacht for solo trip to Hawaii?

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Blue Ghost, Feb 24, 2015.

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  1. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Someone forgot to tell them:
    http://www.joshuaslocumsocietyintl.org/solo/solotable.htm
  2. daysgoneby

    daysgoneby New Member

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    True enough, I'd still do it if so desired but I'd be a little worried about insurance issues. There is a guy who single handed a 65' ketch from Puget Sound to South East Asia! non stop.
  3. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    No, you just get killed, when you get run over by a freighter that doesn't see you or the person on watch fell asleep. The funny thing is, they don't even feel they hit something
  4. daysgoneby

    daysgoneby New Member

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    I wish I had more wisdom to impart about this experience, but no matter what evasive action you take, a vessel on an erratic course going four or five times your speed can always run you down. Radio communication would be the obvious preventative measure, but when you’ve got three hundred Brazilian fishermen arguing about soccer…
    http://www.condesa.org/assorted-adventures/the-run-over-by-a-container-ship-story/
    Last edited: May 25, 2015
  5. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    One thing that seems to confuse many, especially some sailors. Just because someone has done it, or because it's possible, does not mean it's smart to do something. Just because our cars can go 190 mph doesn't mean we're going to get on the Florida Turnpike and prove it.

    It's amazing too how those who say go for it, never mention all those who had to be rescued or weren't rescued. Guess because they never wrote books on their wonderful trip.

    So many things wrong with that Condesa story and yet not a word in it about what they might have done to avoid the accident. Flare, horn, siren, spotlight? Radar? Capability of using engine. Avoid shipping channel? AIS? Still at least they had someone on watch.

    I know many disagree with this, but I do believe single handed crossings are wrong. While it may not qualify as Indirect Suicide it sure is a lot like Russian Roulette.
  6. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Lack or preparation and a disregard to the reality of the undertaking can quite easily end in disaster

    The yacht NINA and its loss should be a good recent reminder for anyone who thinks they are 10ft tall and bullet proof.
  7. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Of all the parts that struck me from the NINA story, the one that really showed the disregard for safety was the new engine installation made in NZ. The provider refused to warranty the engine based on a poor do it yourself installation by the boat owner, misalignment, vibration leading to inability to run at recommended RPM, and ingress of water. The boat owner was not concerned.
    Niceaft likes this.
  8. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    A point blank refusal to carry basic survival gear is another one. This is something that boats used to be forced to have when leaving NZ till a cruising sailboater with deep pockets initiated legal action against the NZ Govt and the requirement was dropped.

    If I had my way vessels leaving would have a check over by a competent authority. A failure to comply with basic safety requirements such as rafts, EPIRBS, Radios etc would remove any responsibility for anyone to risk their own lives or waste tax payers dollars looking for you.
  9. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    The biggest problem of those sailing solo circumnavigators is not being run over by other ships or hitting a partially submerged container or a sleeping whale. Modern electronics like GPS, Radar(s) with MARPA, AIS, Sat Com and Sat Weather and last but not least, reliable Autopilots and steering vanes make things much easier nowadays and a little bit safer. But the point is valid, their is no redundancy in human resources on board. Sickness or an accident with a broken bone can endanger life immediately.

    No, the biggest problem almost all solo circumnavigators had, was loneliness, awfull loneliness. Maintaining mental stability in weeks of total loneliness takes a strong character and a decent amount of self discipline.

    Doing the necessary daily routine, keeping the constant rhythm of short periods of sleep, personal hygiene, cleaning, regular eating, doing the necessary daily maintenance on the above and below deck gear on top of the necessary seamanship, just on your own, takes discipline. Mental instabilty will lead into idleness and carelessness and can be mortal.

    I have talked to one of the German solo circumnavigators, Wilfried Erdmann. He has done the circumnavigation several times, both solo and with his wife and solo in both directions and in a fairly small boat. A special character, I must say. After his last solo trip, it took him some time to get resocialized to the civilized land locked world again.

    I could not do that. I have done a solo ferry trip with a new 49 ft sail boat from the factory in Sweden around Denmark to Germany many years ago, which took 4 days of non stop at pretty rough sea. More than enough for me and I would not do it again. Just boring and to much unnecessary risk.
  10. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    You're so right.

    I emphasize one that ties directly to mental instability and that's lack of sleep. So mental fatigue from lack of sleep and the monotony and loneliness.

    I read the story of someone just on an 11 day or so single navigation, and he didn't collide with anything but he made several rather serious mistakes you have to think he wouldn't have made had he been in good mental state. A turn to the north somehow turned into a complete circle.

    You have less social interaction than a person in solitary confinement in prison.

    And when something comes up, emergency or potential problem, the person isn't prepared to handle it promptly and efficiently. Their problem solving skills are gone.
  11. TeKeela

    TeKeela Member

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    It depends on who does the enforcing.



    Clearly a solo trip without someone on watch is selfish to those who may encounter you. A solo vessel is unmanned while you are sleeping. Imagine how a ship or other vessel would feel if they ran you over while you were snoozing away in a shipping lane. And one of those small 20ft sailboats would not be an easy radar target in big seas. At least take a 2nd person. I'm all for the freedom to get oneself killed as long as they don't endanger someone else. Want to bungee jump, base jump, no problem, just don't do it over or in front of someone else.
    Last edited: May 25, 2015
  12. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    We boat for pleasure. Nothing else. Just pleasure. Not for a challenge to prove what we can do or show off skills. On top of that we want our crew to enjoy the trips. That means preparation and equipping. It also means adequate people to share the responsibilities.
  13. Blue Ghost

    Blue Ghost Member

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    The loneliness I can handle. I've spent most of my life alone and it doesn't bother me, unlike a lot of other people I've met. I really don't know why some people get all "freaky" without other people around.

    It's just that every time I've been out on the Atlantic or Pacific it's always been with a crew. I've sailed SF Bay by myself, but that's about it.

    Even if I did get lonesome, I'd figure I'd always have a solar powered laptop to surf the net ... maybe even do some online gaming during down time.

    Eh, it all depends on how this year goes. Right now I am flat busted broke, but things may turn around in a few days or weeks.

    Soloing in a 65' ketch, huh? How do you handle a yacht that size by yourself? Is the rigging automated or something?
  14. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Normal being alone you can handle. Lots of things we can all handle to a point. Being alone at home or in a boat for a weekend is nothing like being alone and a thousand miles from anyone plus exhausted and tired. Maybe you would handle it well, but it's one of those things I don't think one can know until they do it.
  15. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    Technically, a modern 65 ft sailboat can easily be handled by a single person. With hydraulic or electrical winches, hydraulic stow away mast or boom, hydraulic furlers on the forestays, hydraulic bow and stern thrusters, a child can handle a 65 ft sail boat. That is called push button sailing. As long as all systems work and the weather is fine, no problem at all. But as soon as the s...... is hitting the fan, as you guys say, some more able hands are needed. It is still a more than 30 metric tonne boat.

    Below an example of one of the best production sail boats of this size in the world, the Swedish Hallberg-Rassy 64. A really big and sturdy boat with great sailing performance and the dream of any sailor not only in Europe as you can see. This boat can be controlled completely from the steering wheel by push buttons and touch srceens. And below deck it has more amenities than most people at their homes.

    HR64Harbour.JPG
    HR64cockpit.JPG
    The founder of that company, Cristoph Rassy used to sail the predesessor of this boat, the Hallberg-Rassy 62, single handed to most boat shows in Northern Europe without any problems or incidents. But this were only 2 or 3 day trips, no passage making. And after retirement, he took his HR 62 around the world, together with his wife.
  16. bobhorn

    bobhorn Member

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    How does that "solar powered laptop" work in the middle of the Pacific?
  17. Opcn

    Opcn Senior Member

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    My guess is that you haven't spent much time using satellite based internet connections.
  18. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Nor spent much time paying for it.
  19. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    How well do those push button controls, winches and touch screens work after the boat has been hit by lightning?
  20. HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    Thats why I said, when the s...... is hitting the fan, as you guys say, some more able hands are needed. But as a back up, all hydraulic and electrical wizzards can be operated manually on this boat. You only need some more hands.

    IMHO all this automatization is only for convinence and not for single handed sailing as the primary mode of operation. And for passage making or circumnavigation, I would always carry a sextant and the good old almanach on board.

    I have had several lightning strikes in my life, both in the air (in military jets and in a civil aircraft) and on merchant ships and sailing yachts. The most severe one I had, was in the military, flying the F-4 Phantom II during a night intercept. The lightning strike caused the pitot boom to melt, a total black out in all electrical aircraft systems and a big hole in the rudder, where the lightning left the fuselage again. There I was at 18.000 ft and about 450 Kts in dark night above and in between clouds with no further airspeed and altitude indication, a totally dark cockpit and no radios and navaids and no intercom with my navigator. The only thing working were the engines, the primary flight controls and my flashlight.

    I was able to rejoin on my Bravo, get him alerted with my flashlight and tell him with morse code to bring me home. And he did. After an no flap formation approach with emergency gear lowering and an approach end barrier engagement, we had a little birthday party in the club that night. The poorest guy in the whole game was my navigator (WSO). He had no clue, what was going on until touchdown, as I could not talk to him. He was scared to death and took his consequences afterwards and asked for a deskjob, poor fellow :).

    I must say all other lightning strikes, I had after this incident, were a piece of cake in regard to that one above. In most cases, some electronics or antennas smoked away, the compass system had to be degaused and compensated again and some CBs to be replaced.

    Will say, technical redundancy and / or manual back up systems are always a good idea but also as important is a second able hand while sailing or flying. Not only for taking over control when needed but also as a mutual support, when fear, monotony and loneliness crawls up on you.

    Men are communicative creatures and not born for solo oparations over prolonged time.

    Just my 2 (Euro) cents