Discussion in 'AB Yachts' started by AGav, Aug 15, 2015.
I stand corrected on that account. Thank you again for your input.
No worries- you sounded like me 4 years ago. After 470 hrs, 94 cruising days and 134 nights aboard (with a 0 cruise COVID Year) I am “becoming aware of what I don’t know”, but not yet to the point of “knowing what I don’t know”.
In my nomenclature I categorize* as follows.
Trawler, single engine, shafts, 8kts with flybridge.
Motor Yacht. Twin engines, 8-28kts, most
with Flybridge, mostly shaft driven
Express Yacht/Cruiser ; Twin Engines; newer ones have pods, no flybridge. Faster than Flybridge Motor Yachts.
*This is a Midwestern guy’s nomenclature. I group trawlers as slow and M/Ys faster.
Trawler does kind of sound like "crawler" laughing... In the traditional sense, they're stable, long range and what I'd like to express as rugged. Though Sirena calls some of their Yachts Trawler-ish, by the definitions yourself and Olderboater laid down, they're Motor Yachts though they're modeled in the fashion or look of some trawlers.
I sort of agree with that, but only because as I previously suggested the AB is a boat meant for fast cruising, not for driving pleasure - of which there's absolutely none on any 80 footer, also (and in many ways, even less) when bashing waves at 45 kts.
But I don't think to be the only boater on the planet who likes fast (I mean, really fast) boats AND trawlers, which are in fact completely different things, that I summarize with driving vs. cruising.
I used to have a Fountain as a driving tool for my holiday home in lake Como (and only sold her because nowadays I spend most of my time at sea), but in the very same years I also had a timber full displacement trawler at sea.
Not much in common between them, aside from the fact that both of them floated - and the first just barely, BTW.
But I greatly enjoyed both of them.
Obviously, the former for just short bursts at a time, and the latter for days if not weeks.
Then again, if you restrict the reasoning to vessels meant to be used for cruising, then I fully agree.
Neither myself, nor anyone I ever met, would be indifferent when asked to chose between an offshore passage at 45 or 8 knots.
And in this sense, I agree also that DocCuzi should make up his mind (as in fact I hinted also in my previous post), because with boats, there's no such thing as having your cake and eat it, so to speak.
Maybe I'll wind up with two... A mini pocket Rocket and a Slow and steady for different purposes of course. I'm determined to shed this landlubber theology I've been soo accustomed to. Like yourself, I may spend more time at sea than on land eventually. Maybe I'll get an older Behring to do some real exploring and have the other for rapid jaunts up and down the east coast or for shorter distances abroad. The ultimate goal is to get a craft that's really not too much to manage for just 2 people (over time). @60 years old, I'm in the hot pocket where I'll be making up my mind and developing all that's necessary over this next 3 to 4 years. Each Auto I own is really suited for a different purpose, so shall it be with the boats. Yes... I know, there's tons of cost associated with keeping these things sea worthy, but.... you can't take it with you... may as well enjoy it how you like when you like....
Turns out he doesn't like trawlers, likes one line of moderate sized motor yachts.
Now you're talking.
Well, I'm not sure I'd pick a Bering among trawlers, but the logic makes sense.
And interestingly, for the "mini pocket Rocket" as you called it, "mini" is the crucial bit.
In fact, driving pleasure is inversely proportional to size, so staying "mini" is a win-win, also for manageability.
No 80 footer on the planet, no matter how fast, will ever give you any driving thrill.
Unless playing with the autopilot head and the trim settings is your idea of thrill!
LOL... I'm sure... Perhaps that's a mis-statement. I have a few auto's that are an absolute pain but go really fast and lets skip what the maintenance on some of those are. I do see getting the the Bahamas, and the runs to NY on weekends (where I'm from) as being normal happenings. Grabbing a sibling or a grand child and heading out to Sag Harbor for the weekend. Or Docking in closer Brooklyn or even one of the ports on the west side of Manhattan could be regular activities. I don't want to own property in NYC any longer because the taxes are abysmal, so having a nice Yacht to relax in while there is preferable. Allow me to benefit of your knowledge. As a Trawler in the 70 to 80 foot range, which would be of your personal preference?? I'm thinking about build quality, reliability etc etc. Also, would you look to do something new if you were in the market or would you look for something you're sure has been maintained properly. I ask this because I don't know of many crafts in this class as I've been looking more at Riva, Pershing, Azimut and now AB.
We get driving thrills from out boats, especially the faster ones. The thrill is covering the water, seeing where you go. I don't have to be hand steering for that thrill. Driving thrills are going to evolve on cars as well. Ironically, I don't get as much driving thrill from a Maserati as I do from a Riva. It's about being in control of a boat skimming over the water.
Trawlers in that range would include Nordhavn, Bering (if you want that involvement), Outer Reef, Selene. Now most in that size range don't go the Trawler route but do as you were talking earlier into a Motor Yacht, a semi-displacement boat of some sort. Even the new Grand Banks are providing speed. Then brands like Fleming that fall somewhere in between. Perhaps the better thoughts would be displacement boats vs. semi-displacement and planing.
You need to stop looking and experience some boats. You're jumping way ahead of where you are when you try to pick brands. You don't even know what kind, or what characteristics you're after yet. Look at charters and pick some that are of boats that interest you. Find out what you love, but perhaps more importantly what you hate. One boat we chartered was so superb and yet we could never have been happy with it's speed. Another was very nice but the fact there was no lower helm eliminated it from our consideration. These are very personal things. Just don't jump the gun as you'll make a serious mistake if you do.
Then if you can't be happy with just one, you'll buy more than one.
I know... and presently, I have my air brakes on. Please understand as well, I'm a person who's worked his trousers off his entire life that has accumulated some resources and has a vision. Though that vision be jagged and unclear presently, it definitely has room for a nautical theme. Me expressing thoughts and your along with other's responses is giving me more of the sense of what's realistic and what isn't. In many regards, I'm like a 4 year old that wants all the ice cream and cake he can possibly consume in as many flavors. Asking or suggesting some of the dumb questions positions me to get a better idea of what makes sense and what doesn't because a 4 year old just doesn't have the knowledge or understanding to know any better. Trust, I'm looking at a 4 year window (minimum) to become a Captain, get sea experience, to visit shows, take rides (multiple rides), experience charters of different craft and to ask as many questions as possible. At the point where I'm ready to open my purse strings I'll be on sound footing. This coming spring will mark the start of a much more active press as we should be in a better position to know what's going on with the pandemic.
Professionally, I'm a senior communications engineer by trade and have built a successful career in excess of 44 years by careening every possible iota of information from which to develop technological solutions for my clients. I Architect, and implement and maintain truly large, heterogenous fully data and voice networks for Private industry, Financial Institutions, Education Institutions and governments. In short, I'm saying trust I will be extremely prudent and not fool hearty when I'm in the final draw to make the selection some years from now. Getting all of this good information is intoxicating.
You haven't driven the right 80'ers then....... put your self in a 35+ knot Sportfish, Arneson boat, or even a predator.....and you can get plenty of driving thrills............
To the OP just buy a trawler and put a 18' Donzi classic on it.........To me a trawler has to be a displacement hull as far as definition......semi displacement would be a "fast trawler"/
Driving thrill at 35 kts? You're having a laugh, Captain.
Don't confuse boats capable of going fast(ish) also in somewhat rough seas with boats which MUST be driven constantly, with one hand on the wheel and one on the throttle, requiring reaction times that can be measured in tenth of seconds.
If you post a pic of a Viking 80' (or whatever) comparable to the one below, I'll eat my hat.
And mind, I'm not even considering true speed demons.
Many years ago, I joined a racer friend of mine in a seatrial of his 21' catamaran, with a single, pedal throttle driven Mercury 2.5 EFI 2 stroke, capable of speeds well in excess of 100 mph.
Hands down, my most scary boating experience ever.
So, forgive me if I reverse your statement: if you think you can get plenty of driving thrills from 80 footers (ANY of them, even the fastest kids on the block - let alone the laughable Predators), you haven't driven a real speedboat.
And just what gives you the right to decide what others find thrilling. I've ridden on a 90 mph boat. Scary and not enjoyable. I've captained at 60-65 mph and found it thrilling. I've also captained at 40-45 mph and found it thrilling. It doesn't have to include risk or be fear inducing for me to find it thrilling. Someone states they find something thrilling or don't, that's a personal thing and you can't judge what another feels.
And I have been on an 80' AB and I did find it thrilling even though not at the helm myself. I even found their 140' thrilling in a way I never expected for a boat that size. Our boats that only run 25 knots, I find more enjoyable rather than thrilling. However, I don't expect anyone else to see any of it the same way, just don't think they can question how it makes me feel.
PS. I also find 40 mph in our ribs to be thrilling.
What gives you the right to decide what others can post? I found Mapism's post to be accurate.
A forum is a place for each of us to express our individual opinions, experience and thoughts. Let's keep it that way.
Not sure of what your point is, exactly.
It wasn't "thrill" alone that we were discussing, it was "driving thrill".
I'm very curious to understand what exactly you found exciting in the way an AB140 is "driven", though I'm not sure it even makes sense to talk of "driving" a boat like that - which as you perfectly know you can control with a wireless remote while sunbathing.
OTOH, I can see why you found 40mph on a small rib thrilling, and in THAT case I think it's much more appropriate to talk of driving thrill, compared to anything north of 80 feet.
Regardless, accusing me of taking the right to decide whatever anyone else think or feel is totally out of place.
I threw in my views, nothing else.
You think differently? Fine.
Whatever floats your boat(S)!
LOL, it seems that I was writing while also YF did.
No worries anyway, I think OB might have just missed the fact that my comments were strictly addressing the driving experience (and the thrill of it), rather than the thrill of boating in general.
Of which there's plenty - possibly more than in any other conditions - also on SAR vessels, even if they aren't that fast!
You think of driving in a far different way and more limited way than I do. Perhaps it's generational. For you, if I'm interpreting right, driving is the feel in the steering wheel and the acceleration and deceleration. For me it's the overall experience at the helm. I don't have to feel the road or the water in my hands.
I think of driving changes over the years on cars. I know people said power steering worsened the "driving experience." Then cruise control. What about power brakes. I don't have to physically feel it in my hands to enjoy the driving experience of a car or boat. I get the experience crossing the water, how we go over the waves, how the wind feels, how the land looks. It's all the senses, not just the touch of the hands on the wheel. Steering wheels aren't likely to be around that much longer. By your thought on driving experience, Formula One today has less than Nascar as they don't manhandle the car but finesse it.
Now, you didn't just throw in your views, you made fun of Captain J's. While Carl thinks I was out of line, I didn't say yours were wrong for you, just that I felt differently.
Perhaps it's the whole word "Thrill" too. Doesn't have to be physically strenuous or fearful or really challenging for me to consider it thrilling. I find 45-50 knots in a straight line on a perfectly smooth surface with me sitting at the helm and not touching any control except every few minutes but just seeing what we're doing and experiencing what we see and smell and feel to be thrilling. Perhaps too lowkey to thrill you.
Thanks for trusting my knowlegde, but I'm not really up to speed on the current market offer.
Aside from Nordhavn and a few other usual suspects, none of which I've ever fallen in love with, in the 70 to 80 range the true trawlers that I've seen and impressed me most were built by Delta, Park Isle and Northern - all of these names, by coincidence, followed by "Marine", just in case you never heard of them.
I also liked one of the Darwin series boats, if I may be a bit patriotic and throw in also an Italian builder.
But I think they are now mostly focused on larger sizes.
And coming to think of it, also for the previous three American builders, I'm not sure if they are still active in that segment - or active at all, for that matter.
Though they might be worth considering if you should opt for the second of the alternatives you are envisaging (buy used rather than new boats).
Which is essentially a matter of budget and time available, just to give you my view also on that part of your question.
Nope. Although "trawler" is more of a marketing term and a state of mind than it is a specific pleasure craft...
And the whole idea of a "Swift Trawler" is oxymoronic.
But look at names like Nordhavn, Kadey-Krogen, Defever, maybe Selena, etc, -- see Trawler Yachts section here -- for something closer to what "fuel economy" means. Fleming etc is similar but pushes the window somewhat on cruise speeds, still nowhere near the Sirena numbers.