Which Paint?

Before you slink back too far, let me elaborate on my reasoning on using manufacturers' recommended products in general, not just in washing boats. I don't have the facilities to test products, nor does my crew. While many are quite expert and knowledgeable, including my crew, they still don't have the information that those manufacturing the product may. So, I take the conservative route, even knowing sometimes it costs more than necessary. That difference is rather minor in the totality of boat costs. So, it's not failure to respect the knowledge and experience of those like you, but also just choosing those who should have even more knowledge. It's really just like you recommending Awl Grip's application center. Absolutely if I painted boats I'd feel that was an essential place to have gone. I also will choose who paints very carefully to insure they are expert with the specific product, properly trained, a well deserved good reputation, and will stand behind their work.

I don't profess that manufacturers' recommendations are necessarily the best. But they should have accumulated knowledge. And I do not believe I have the information to say there is a better choice. I have Awlgrip and Alexseal. Not on the same boat. And happy with both so far although still early. But I also know that both builders only have extensive experience on the one product.

I admit to knowing very little about coatings. I have crew that can quote all the specifics and has extensive experience. But until I have a strong reason otherwise, I'll continue to follow manufacturer's recommendations. Now among the six Alexseal recommends, the choice then is based on crew's knowledge and experience.

Back to the original question. I think Alexseal and Awlgrip/Awlcraft products are very good. I know many painters prefer Awlgrip. I also know much of that relationship was created on their previous product. I think the choice is ultimately what you're looking for on the final product. Now, if I needed a boat I own painted today, which would I choose? Whichever one the builder used initially and I'd aim for the same finish they got.

One thing you should also consider is paint availability. You can even find Awlgrip products on West Marine's shelves. Whereas you have to go looking for the other manufacturers paints.

Thank you O B Very eloquently stated. I'm now peeking out of the hole that I've crawled into. I would like to calmly comment on Awl Grips warranty policy. You will drill down for hours on any one of their web sites and not find a single printed word concerning "warranty" If you ask your local rep you will get the "Deer in the head lights" expression. Fact is you can look at the product safety label and literature on the cans and not find anything. Internationals limited and conditional warranty is as rare to find as the Albino Sahara frog. you will be provided with claim forms that have you reveal everything from where you buried Jimmy Hoffa to your sisters brazier size before International sends a rep to counter everything that you've submitted. truth be said. They have become accustomed to throwing the applicator under the bus for 90% of any issues and have the subs professional liability insurance pay to repair any claims. Please go look for any literature of any substance concerning warranty's for paint applications and you'll see the art Of misdirection

The amount of litigation K1W1 has referenced tells you all one needs to know about their warranty. When you're being sued by one person it's an issue. When it's multiple people you can argue all you want about whose fault it is, but it reflects poorly on where your company stands. The best companies avoid litigation and find ways of resolving the issues of cause and fault.

There is no such thing as a perfect paint job be it a 60 footer or a 300 footer. The bad boys of big business are professional litigators and it comes naturally to them when things go south. Mega yacht coatings are a sticky business that are just now getting standards and policies in place to alleviate most of the situations. Granted, there are many circumstances where vessels were painted to less than spectacular results and litigation is required to resolve the problem. In most instances the contracts were Ill conceived and poorly executed that allowed litigation for minor imperfections because the standards of acceptance weren't spelled out prior to painting.

Capt J, I'm blown away by what you said, I'm sorry, I had no idea that you had a yacht maintenance business that had over 100 yachts under contract.You have a lot of balls in the air at the same time and it's impressive that you still have time for your two circumnavigations of the earth in sea miles every year doing delivery work as you've stated previously that you average 20,000 plus miles a year ( smiles all around) Very cool indeed. BTW , I do relief work to keep my second assistant engineer unlimited up to date by acquiring sea time. I had a boat drivers ticket but gave it up when the USCG wouldn't count duel sea time so just know this , I've been where you've yet to go so don't knock what you don't know. I didn't have to think twice about giving up a 1600 ton limited Capt. License vs my engineering credential and if you ever attended a four year merchant academy you would understand.

Hate to tell you dudes but credentials and crap don't necessarily make one right. Just makes them experienced. Oh and we actually did do almost 20,000 miles last year and will probably hit 16,000 this year so that makes me the paint expert. And I know what I like. Blue. Baby Blue. See. Solved.

Oh and I circumnavigated the universe but then woke up still in my bed.

Oh and to the OP who has probably run for shelter, don't go against a strong recommendation by your painter. If you want to go against his recommendation go to another painter. Cause the problems he recites about the one he doesn't like, he'll probably have.

Now. Remember. Blue. The color of the sky. Got it?

Well, you got the blue. Darker than I asked for but my request was too late. Looks good.

If you re-read what I wrote. I wrote that I step foot on 100's of different yachts a year. Not manage 100 different yachts a year. I manage and maintain a very managable number of yachts where I can maintain a high standard of maintanence. I run a lot of different yachts a year, as many as 7 different ones in 1 day. I do freighter loadings and unloadings, a lot of them. I'm one of 2 people that do the most in South Florida bar none. I also do a good amount of deliveries and owner trips. I also step foot on a lot of different yachts for various reasons, 1 owner wants me to take a quick look at 3 yachts he's interested in, freighter loadings/unloadings, just to visit a friend, a quick mechanical repair, the list goes on and on. I believe that I origionally stated I do between 12-20,000 NM's a year, which I do. It's rather easy to do, when you're doing it at 30-35 knots or even 20 knots. It's only 40-65 300NM days a year. or 60-100 200NM days. Real easy to do when you're running fast boats. A friend of mine makes it from Palm Beach to Staten Island in 2 days flat in the boat he runs, 450NM's a day. I fly under the radar and mind my own business.

You've been where I've yet to go??? Perhaps I have no interest in going there. I'm exactly where I want to be and go. This post isn't about me, my life story, or you. It's about paint.

Olderboater does those kinds of miles as well, as a recreational boater......so it can be done and is done. Those that question it, have never done it. Heck a Fort Lauderdale Water Taxi or SeaTow captain does 12,000 miles a year or more.

I do like Awlgrip and Awlcraft 2000 and have had very good results in jobs I've had done with it since 2011, and I mainly like it because that's what most yards/painters are using day in and day out. Imron is very good also, but it just seems not as many yards/painters use it as much lately. I'm not a huge fan of Alexseal.

It looks like you got a phenomenal job. The reflection and clarity is beautiful in the hull.

Nice gloss on the top sides. Looks great. Capt J, I'll PM you in the future for any disagreements as it's not fair to waylay a thread like we have and I apologize to the OP. As fun as it is to sit on the side lines and eat popcorn when others have public disagreements on YF I don't want to be one of those people but I'll keep the Orville Redenbocker handy for those who like to discuss hydrostatics and stability . Haaa haaaa

Great gloss indeed,Imron (IMHO)has the best depth of gloss ..I really dont understand the fact that although Dupont has a fantastic product,they dont market it that much as other brands spend a hell of time for networking and promotion.
For years the marine segment of Dupont has been struggling to show up its face-talking about Europe-,again although they have several succesful paint jobs on a number of larger yachts which holds quite well in long term.
Recently spoken for a vessel that has been applied Dupont 5-6 year ago.Im told the gloss is still great,and the crew is just polishing when it is needed!This of course is no good news for paint manufacterers and applicators as the mainstream is repaint the boats each 4-5 year as on most cases the gloss is not existing anymore.

When it comes to nowadays ,Awlgrip topcoats are still applied succesfully indeed with great results.However a considerable number of large yachts ( especially on NB in Europe) is switching to alternative paint systems -Alexseal and Jotun.

Imron was initially invented or created as an airplane paint or paint for airplanes. The yachting industry just picked it up and started using it back in the day. Well that and there were lots of aluminum non megayachts being built back in the day. I have seen Imron last a very long time, an impressive amount of time actually. I think that Awlgrip has such a share in the market, and Dupont has such a large share in both automotive and airplane markets, that they just feel that the money they spent promoting it, wouldn't be well spent, it's just a small bonus to them. The one thing with Dupont paints, is with their pigments, you do not get a True Black. Black ends up being a touch lighter in color than other manufacturers.....not that many yachts are painted black.

J is correct in his statement that imron was the go to paint used for aircraft due to it's low solids weight and ability to Withstand Extream cold and heat cycles. I believe that a gallon of Imron was under 10 lbs and Awl -Grip was 19 lbs or so when catalyzed and reduced and thats a big deal when 60 or so gals are being applied to an aircraft. I'm not sure that Du Pont
Still manufactures what we could buy in the 1980 's as far as a epoxy vinyl ester formula. They've switched to acrylic urethanes and a linear urethane in their
Imron Elite , Imron 5000 and 6000 products, once again like other urethane manufacturers that are switching from aliphatic to aromatic urethanes due to off gassing VOC's & EPA guidelines

Sorry if this has already been discussed but...
I have had 6 or so customers boats painted by Luu Marine at Lauderdale Marine center over the last 20 years (before LMC)
They are the best. On time, on budget and stand behind the work.
Next summer I will paint my 45 Viking Princess and Luu will do the work. All yard fees are included in his quote.

Imron first showed up years ago on the lake in high performance boats as it gave that shine beyond others. Other boats that just stuck to regular gelcoat would still have Imron graphics as options.

I'm not a fan of LUU as they seem to put the bare minimum on when it comes to MIL thickness. I manage a yacht painted by them in 2009 with a beige hull and the few area's it got a minor scratched, the paint is paper thin. It looks good, but is not as thick as I'd like to see. I just had a boat painted at Cable west, a navy hull and it came out great. Everyone has their preferences though.

I love the fact that there are so many passionate professionals here on this Forum! I enjoy people here reviving threads from 4 years back, it's a good indication of passion and dedication! Just wanted to let you guys know I'm proud to be a member here, and reading threads like this make me feel like a 6th grader. I'm one of those people who like to learn something new everyday, and this Forum is truly a very deep well of knowledge.

I also know that our individual passions create some personality frictions now and then, but IMO provides not only enjoyable reading, but indicates our passion for boating, and our love of being out on the Water. And ultimately, we are a very small percentage of the population who "get it" as to the joy and wonders of being privy to the incredible sleep of being on the hook, or the wonderment of watching Dolphins play in our bow or stern wake, or watching a sea turtle surface a few feet from our boat to "check us out" or marvel at how viscous the Sea can be, we are a group of the "elite" few who appreciate the wonders of our marine world. Yes, boats are absolutely a pain the the butt, and require tons of maintenance, along with a lot of money....but in the end, isn't it worth all of the aggravation? And for those of you who's "job" entails being on the water, your passion is the greatest. Even though it's a paycheck, you'd rather be on the water, than being a desk jockey in some stuffy office...my hat's off to all of you.

We probably need to do our best to try to keep our egos in check....I know that's probably like asking a dog not to bark, as you all have noticed I like to run out to the end of my chain, and bark the loudest, but we're all Brothers here. Oh crap, I probably need to have a few more drinks....this is getting sappy.

I hope everyone has a happy Thanksgiving!

never had all these arguments when everybody used Z-Spar 99.