What will yachts and yachting look like in 2015?

Isn't It The Truth

Well guys I have been reading with amazement, and yes I to am that 50 mark of age, and have been a Commercial Professional Fisherman all my life and now operate a large Charter Company here in Queensland, Australia. When I first started it was with a compass and landmarks, my Dad had originally used a lead weight with a hollow in it, quite like the shape of a bell and they would put like a soap in it and drop that over the side, similar to a lead line of old days (for sounding) and that would tell them if they were on reef or sand by the sediment that was embedded in the soap. So along come me, and compass and landmarks, and remember we would not only navigate using these crude methods but also trawl (tow nets for prawn on the ocean floor) so with the aid of the compass and watching lights etc dissappearing behind trees on land etc we were able to work out how far we could go before having to change direction etc and or turn around. I am on the Gold Coast and recently delivered a vessel up from Sydney and took my 12 year old son and done it the old way, no auto pilot, no sounder, no gps, etc, it was all hand steer, star sights land marks etc and non stop. let me tell you he had a great time and enjoyed it far more than sitting with a play station and getting bored while the auto pilot done the lots. Its up to us to keep the knowledge going.

Then you talk of boat driving, well one charter boat here on Saturday run over a dinghy with 3 people in it, why cause he did not care (had topless girls on his boat and was watching them and not the water ways) but I now shudder when someone says they can drive a boat, because driving a boat does not just mean Oh! I got it there!!!1 it measn being able to put the boat away in any berth in any conditions in any direction , not like the little old lady down the road with her big car and drive around the shopping center caar park until she finds a park space that she will not have to reverse out of . Unfortunately now i see the art of driving a boat has already been lost, and i am not talking speed boats or twin scre with bow thruster, put some one in a single screw old trawler and see ho they go no bow thruster and no 10 people on the dock to help, well let me tell you it does not happen, my best humerious days are watching in silence as these guys try to park thir toys, and they know it all and they can drive it real good but they dont get it in the spot LOL. One guy actually smashed the Marina and I did say to him "well mate, you certainly done that well" and his reply was " yeh, I have been doing it for years" he was impressed but well I was lost fro words.

Sorry guys for the long post but two things I cannot handle is IGNORANCE and INCOMPETANCE and that is where our boating is heading if it has not already arrived. ask someone especially on a yacht that has two gps's and why? and the answer will be "Oh in case one breaks down " well the sextant and hand bearing compasses of the world will now sit on the book shelf as an ornament, Think I am wrong, Think again.

Take Care and Safe Boating
Capt Garry

Naked ladies can be a challenge.

New-Age Hybrid Yacht

I looked thru this subject thread rather quickly, so I may have missed a reference to a hybrid 'kitesail assisted power vessel' I had suggested elsewhere on this forum:

New Age Trawler/Motorsailer; Kite assisted PowerYacht

http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/general-yachting-discussion/8127-new-age-trawler-motorsailer-kite-assisted-poweryacht.html
...excerpt
How might this kite business affect the yachting business? It goes back to idea of a motorsailer, or phrased differently, a ‘wind-assisted power vessel’. If we can optimize the economy of the power vessel, as the trawler concept seeks to accomplish, and then add ‘sail’ assistance, we have a recipe for a ‘future class of new trawlers’ that can be quite economical to operate, and have a great range. I believe this could be a very viable alternative yachtform for our new fuel future.

Humphrey’s yacht design is very big on this idea as well. Attached is their tentative proposal for a 40M SkySail MotorYacht. They’ve termed it a SkySail-supplimented MotorYacht, “The use of the word ‘supplemental’ is chosen carefully. While we expect this family of boats to be able to ‘sail’ efficiently under SkySail, we foresee that fundamentally the boats have to be very efficient and seakindly motoryachts, and in this respect the common denominator for efficiently under both forms of motive power is low hull resistance. Thus our work on this generic set has evolved towards slender body hulls that derive stability from wavepiercing outriggers….they are in effect trimaran derivatives, which will have long rang capability under engine, not to mention the ‘free’ miles under SkySail."

I have been following some of the ‘slender ship’ technology as it has cross-over potential with multihull technologies. For a few references, visit these websites, and see a few of the attachments I’ve provided. There is considerably more reference material available. ....cont


Back to those design concept drawings by Humphrey’s (attached PDF).
I can fully imagine a scaled-down version of this tri-hull design, in the 65-70 foot range.......cont

Supercapacitor Batteries

Something else I was surprised about in the numerous mentions of new technology batteries...no mention of the supercapacity types. I had started this subject thread in hopes of gathering together lots of the different new technologies that are under development in this field:

Batteries and New Battery Technologies
http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/technical-discussion/8826-batteries-new-battery-technologies.html

I might suggest you have a look at the energy densities, infinite cycle capabilities, very Hi discharge/charge rates, etc of these new tech batteries.....and they are lite weight aerogels and inexpensive construction materials

Ultra-Capacitors as Batteries of the Future
http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/58652-post12.html

More Super-Capacitors & Carbon Aerogel
http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/68319-post16.html

It doesn't change the fact that it still takes more power to recharge than you discharge. Fast discharge and recharge aren't much value to a boat that operates for more than a few hours at a time.

We might see supercapacitors replacing batteries in defence systems and other high end,high energy, short duration loads but I suspect it will be a long time before they replace the good old lead acid cells we have come to know and love for most applications. My crystal ball doesn't show much change by 2015.

It doesn't matter how good the batteries are, how light they are, or how cheap they are, they still waste power, and in a moving platform they require a small power supply for a long time or a massive power supply for a short time ... hardly a viable proposition for what most of us describe as a motor yacht in my opinion.

40%x98% (Peak Diesel efficiency)x(Good Battery Efficiency)=39.2% which is a whole lot more efficienct than 36%(Off peak diesel efficiency). Yes the batteries do waste energy (not power) but they allow a change in the situtation that lets you save energy, and they have additional benefits too. You would loose a dollar to save a dime wouldn't you.

Interesting economic theory.

People do that all the time. They don't spend a few thousand dollars on preventative maintenance and end up spending a few hundred thousand on repairs and restoration.

Anybody who would like to give me a dollar in exchange for $0.10 please contact me by PM.

"Spend a dollar to save a dime". Today that is probably short of the actual rate....but an accurate statement nonetheless. Please check the April/May issue of Professional Boatbuilder for a very thorough article on new advancements being made in Diesel-Electric Power and Lithium Ion batteries. Technical, but for those interested in 'Power for The Future', very interesting. I joined YachtForums this week. I have been involved with boats for 50+ years. Currently own a Grand Banks. Cheat on my customers by owning a "Stinkpotter". Oh well, old Sailors never die, they just quit losing it in their sheets.

Waste energy but not power ... now that's an interesting take on the subject. If you can't convert that energy to power it is wasted, it came from burning diesel fuel that won't turn the prop or cook supper, it's wasted.

One last time; every btu, calorie, Watt, joule, hp, or other measure of energy carried aboard a motor yacht comes out of the fuel tanks. Converting any amount of that fuel to electricity to drive a propulsion motor or to store in a battery of any sort for later consumption will waste energy/power compared to converting it to thrust or electrical power as is done now. This is high school physics.

The "situation" will never let you "save energy." You might gain convenience or some other operational benefit but you will never, I repeat - never, save energy burning diesel or any other fuel in an engine to create electricity to drive a propeller or produce a chemical change that can be reversed to recover a portion of the electricity that was input to the process.

First off the propeller driving thing is a straw man, I never recommended that. For low speed doc maneuvering I would however, who wants to run a 5,000 hp system when you only need 300 hp?

Moving on.

Again, Energy and Power are different things. Energy and Power and not the same thing. Energy and Power are different things. Energy and Power and not the same thing. Energy and Power are different things. Energy and Power and not the same thing. Energy and Power are different things. Energy and Power and not the same thing. Energy and Power are different things. Energy and Power and not the same thing. Energy and Power are different things. Energy and Power and not the same thing. Following yet? This is highschool physics.

(40%x98%=39.2%)>36% That 3.2% difference is Energy Savings No matter how many times you repeat it denying that little inequality I posted above will not make it go away. You have to explain why it doesn't work or doesn't matter, a feat that is probably impossible because it does work and does matter.

How about for the next few days we discuss what Yachting will be like in
2012, 2015, 2018? Everyone that participates in YachtForums has a special degree of knowledge. None of us want to see boat ownership decline. If your income is based on being afloat, you are an avid recreational boater, or you want to buy a boat, these are tough times. What do you think it will take to keep the industry alive? Maybe someone at Grand Banks, Nordhavn, Sea Ray,
Four Winns, etc., will see our collective ideas and benefit from them. You all have some ideas. Lets see where we can go. I may be the Ancientmariner, but I will never lose my love of boating.

I think 2010 and 2011 will be the years of the repoed, pre-owned and nearly new boat; for only somebody with more money than sense will waste the money to buy new with so much to be saved on boats barely, if at all, used. Some large groups will break up their brands and some will disappear. By 2012 the mergers will begin again with widget companies building boats again and by 2015 it will be business as usual with a several new names appearing and several old ones gone.

Can I make a wish? Hopefully two stroke engines will be gone from small boats and PWC. I'm sure you all remember the Exon Valdez, spilled a lot of oil, killed a lot of cute animals, much worse it caused a cascade of death along the food chain. In the year 2006 two stroke outboards and PWC released the equivalent of 11 Exon Valdez oil spills into US waters (Fresh, estuarial, and salt).

PWC aremy pet hate, Many an ocean caneo session has been ruined by being nearly swamped by some Jerk on a PWC, who scares away all the birds and forces the fish beneath into hiding.

Hi,

2 Stroke, 4 Stroke or some kind of hybrid drive won't make a jot of difference to the wake which is a result of the displacement and speed, not what comes out the exhaust pipe.

I'm allowed to dislike them for multiple reasons aren't I?

Hi,

You should read what you wrote there, you clearly wrote about being nearly swamped after your comments about 2 stroke outboards and PWC's polluting the environment.

I simply pointed out that even if a PWC is powered by a rubber band it will still produce a wake at most speeds.

Personally having had a good few years on boats where we were free to ride the Wetbikes, Wave Runners and Jetskis as much as we could I would prefer if they were banned completely.

I give this opinion based on "environmental concerns"- the environment onboard with keeping the things going and this coupled with the 21st century blame culture being top candidates to get rid of them in my book.

I did not mean to imply that the two issues were related. I brought up the swamping to qualify my hatred for them. Disclosing an issue that might cloud my judgement before accidentally bringing it up elsewhere and having that brought back here and diminishing my point.

That is an interesting article. I've been following the HD-X from Energy Tech Marine for some time now- good to see the project has been stopped from stalling due to the 20million dollar contract to build 4 off... might be the real McCoy after all?