What defines an Expedition Yacht?

the Saga of Around the World Record Trimaran Groupama

I would say NO,...not without outside assistance.

If its a sailing cat with a tall rig, even more difficult to get it back up. But if its not a sailing vessel it likely would have NEVER gone over (and no I am not claiming Titantic virtues )

And finally if it went over, it was likely built with lighter-weight materials that would allow it to continue to float....not sink....that's a good thing

Did you ever hear of that large tri that was racing around the world and capsized off New Zealand.....subsequently righted and shipped back to France to be rebuilt, then back on the race course around the world again.

http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/general-sailing-discussion/8428-crewed-round-world-record-attempt.html

...quite a saga

Did you look thru that other posting I linked to?
And maybe this comment if your interested, Roll Stabilization - Page 2 . This reported incident was a serious situation which could have resulted in abandoning the ship for many owners.

"Uno Mas was not sinking, and she was not on fire. But without stabilizers in a brutal, heamy sea, The Fearless 40 was more than just uncomfortable; she was downright dangerous. John had the ship aimed into the oncoming wind and waves to minimize the battering while they assessed the emergencies at hand, but that had put them off course. Any farther afield and Uno Mas wouldn’t have enough fuel to make the remaining distance to the Azores. Getting on course without stabilizers put her at the mercy of a savage sea."

I also took note of this description, "engine-room vents, through the lazarette vents on the outside of the hull (which had been plugged with sponges for the passage)". How do the engines breath properly in this situation. I once had one turbo charger fail on a Chris Craft with a couple of big Cat diesels. The exhast gases leaking from the failed turbo quickly filled up the engine room and clogged the too small inlet air vents, which promptly shut down the other engine for lack of good air.

What would have happened to that trawler had her engines shut down?

Sorry Brian, a formula is one thing, practise is completely different. I wouldn't be court either out in a big sea in a Princess or Bayliner.... big lake boats.

I know from practise that Cat/Tri's will bottom out when they run out of topside, seen it, been on them many of times, not a good feeling. Sailing cats also have a mine of there own in the heavy breezes... they love to pitch pole, more so when flying one hull. In a big sea due to there natual light weight compared to a mono, they will get owned by the sea. Plus, waves can change forms a few meters apart, and with multis it can leave one hull in limbo at times.

The boat in the pic... might be ok in a direct head sea... but generally speaking is and will be a "vom-a-tron" boat. Such a high CG... just don't get that, as it would be a shocker in a following sea... as the pic tells the story.

I'm still a fan of the Dashew... but if the builder could do something with the looks... just a hint of style wouldn't hurt, god! IMO

Far

Sydney/Hobart is mono's only, so no comparison there.

Pete

I think the multis have always been for the punters when it comes to sailing... and why the Sydney/Hobart race is still monos. Maybe the latest America's Cup will change that, time will tell.

Far

I've done some deliveries on Cats in quite big seas. I must say that the movement has made me feel quite ill and sickly, it's a really unpleasant feeling to be pitched and yawed to those extremes. In a monohull, ok you get thrown around a little, but my body can predict what's going to happen next. With a Cat, the axis of the 4 points seems to throw my inner ear 'out' and make me feel sick.

I know that Cats are supposed to be more stable but the ocean isn't a stable place to float. Maybe bobbing about with the natural motion of a boat on the water is better for your inner wellbeing than trying to make a rough ocean a bit flatter.

Or it might just be me?

Presumably your body learns to predict the motion of the type of boat that you sail on. Making it not a matter of better or worse, so much as a matter of different. Americans often experience gastrointestinal distress when they visit mexico (montezuma's revenge). What is not discussed as often is that Mexicans experience the exact same thing when they visit the USA, different can be discomforting.

I think that's very similar to a snap roll in a mono... where the boat jerks around. It happens when the vessel is light weight and flat bottomed... similar attributes to multis.

Far

No, sorry I did not read the entire link, but the "what if" scenarios never really came into play. All small trawler style craft are at the mercy of mechanical reliability, be it stabilizers/engine, more the reason for back-up systems, drogues/warps, etc. What is life threatening for one couple may not necessarily be for another, and abondonding ship is usaully a grave and deadly error in all except the most extreme cases.

But the point is, they got through the crisis and went on to complete their dream cruise, with a hell of lot bluewater experience under their belts.

http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/n...ew-zealand-yachts-spirit-33m-wavepiercer.html

What about this modified Cat / Tri sure looks interesting. Wonder how it does in heavy seas?

Fast, efficient, large living space and conventional mono hull like, and not so wide to be un-manageble/welcome in the marina.

Sort of reminds me a little of the swath deal... which no one has mentioned much on as far as ride and safety issues...

Seem like the SWATH sort of solves the problem for a displacement yacht a this wavepiercer deal for the go fast bunch.

HSV-1 ride

I spent about 36 hours on HSV-1, and INCAT design of about 300', in a range of conditions. I generally don't feel queasy at sea, but did on this vessel in moderate seas... it was like a being on an airplane in turbulence and a boat in swells at the same time.... strange lateral motions.

That said, coming into Morehead City there were 15-20 foot breakers at the entrance and as we entered I was on the bridge monitoring a 17" monitor that had been placed on a Nav table for the short day-and-a-half test ride. A wave brought us maybe 15 degrees off level, but dumped everything off the table, including the monitor.

The point is... I actually felt quite comfortable during that part of the ride, but it was the lateral shifts that caused the spill, which is a significant aspect of cat designs that I don't think most recognize.

The pic of HSV-2, a sistership I had a handy photo of...

I'm actually reading the book about the guy who started up the company (The bast.ard's a Genius), it's a great read! They actually put one of these up on the prickles down in Tassy (Australia)!

Far

Hi,

The Captain , the Owner and the crew who went around the world on the Abeking and Rasmussen SWATH Yacht Silver Cloud all speak very highly of its abilities in a range of conditions.

They did a circumnavigation and returned to A & R after 3 yrs for its first dry docking since launch.

They had encountered problems when travelling of being too big for docks.

Swath

I can confirme that. My beloved wife had a conversation with the wife of this owner. Thats why the SWATH concept is her favorite type of explorer. She told her, Sea Cloud was so rock solid stable during their circumnavigation, not a single piece of China ever fall off a table. Now tell me a single argument, which could counteract this quality statement for a woman.

Also they did not have very much helicopter activity during their journey, the pilots seem to like the stable landing platform. I believe, SWATH combines the advantages of a multihull design without its special motion effects, which can cause motion sickness even for old saltnecks and in my opinion it is a very safe and sound concept for the seven seas.

You have to be carefull with adding weight, because exact trimming, both in draft and pitch attitude, is the key feature of its concept. It has, because of its concept, a higher draft than comparable boats. Shallow lagoons may be off limits for a SWATH, but for that purpose one has invented tender and toys.

It costs more to constuct and build than a monohull or catamaran of the same size. But if done in the typical quality of yards like A&R, its advantages will pay back.

The only real problem for a SWATH is, it does not look like anything, a normal boater is used to. But like I said, If You on it, you dont care

Swath Vessel, Silver Cloud

I actually don't think she looks bad at all,...a nice rending of the Swath concept. This might be a good vessel for you HTM09.

I found this nice long review:
Review: Abeking and Rasmussen Silver Cloud Yacht - Page 1 | Luxury Insider - The Online Luxury Magazine

...just a few pics to draw attention to that review

...just found this home page for Silver Cloud
Yacht Silver Cloud SWATH Home

Silver Cloud

The pictures above show Silver Cloud before its return to A&R and the modification of her aft deck. The hangar for the tender was removed and exchanged by a lowering platform, were a smaller tender lives on. SC is now followed by a Chase boat, which you will see sometimes in tow by SC. B.T.W. this outboard powered boat has gyro stabilization. See picture of SC after mod. And if you watch the little video on her home page, you will see, what I mean with rock solid stable.

The second picture is an design example, I would like. This is only a preliminary design without NA. I do not believe, the buoyancy of this small torpedos is big enough for that large boat.

You don't realize how totally massive Silver Cloud is until you meet her up close and personal.

Here she is in the Rybovich Marina in West Palm Beach several weeks ago.

I definately needed a wider angle lens to capture more of her in the same frame!

I like everthing about Silver Cloud except her draft of 13.5 feet.

Silver Cloud

As far as I know, Silver Clud was the first SWATH (at least from A&R) that has her air breathing engines and gensets in her torpedos. All others have electric motors down below the waterline and the gens at deck level. Those "noisemakers" down in the torpedos (or politically more correct, buoyancy bodies) makes her a very quiet boat. See picture of one of her engine rooms. It remembers one on a submarine. And believe me, it is a long way to the other engine room. The engineer will be in top condition after a long journey.

A SWAT has in certain limits a variable draft. The optimum draft and pitch attitude is maintained with the help of ballast or trim tanks. For harbouring, you can empty those tanks and reduce draft. But it is still a lot. And doing that, you give up her rock stable behavior.

The second picture shows SC totally out of trim, most probably for minimum draft.

As I said... HTM09 I see a visit to A&R in your future.

I had not seen but a picture or two of the stern platform somewhere else on this forum... and it was interesting and I mentioned at the time. With these new pictures I think it is an excellent idea. See the ladies can walk on it directly from the deck... then be lowered to the level of the boats.

If there were a nesting dock where the boat could be captured and locked into place without any gaps or movement between it and the platform... and the steps into the boat were designed in to be easy with some kind of hand rails could be easily put in place... this would be perfect for the ladies.
The boat could be locked on the platform and rise and lower with it before being released in the sea... even.

In my humble experience if they won't go aboard in the first place none of the rest matters. But then the snail boat retains its advantage as a refuge away... unless that were SWATH.

Also, now I have seen the machinery spaces I am in love...