Water delivery - non payment

It's not a matter of money. It's a matter of respect, principle and entertainment. The Irish are known for enjoying a good donnybrook. I've always had a personal 3x's rule. Treat me well and I'll treat you 3x's as well. Do me bad...................... Again, nothing to do with the dollars. Could be $100K or $1.00. It's all the same to me.

You went on the hook $20K for someone whose own bank didn't trust him enough to honor his credit card???????????????? He didn't think to just have the money wired to the marina, or even get a Pay Day loan? Guess it's better to have someone lend you the money for free than to pay 27% interest (which is probably his rate if his bank is refusing his card) or 300%+ on a P.D. loan. You're a very lucky man to have gotten paid, and very lucky that you can afford to lose $20K, plus give away 2 weeks of your professional services. Did he at least pay you the interest and vig on that $20K loan? That'd be about $5,000 at Pay Day loan rates. If I did that I wouldn't need to worry about anything. My wife would slit my throat the minute I walked in the door, and I'd give her permission to do it.

Big question. Would you ever work for him again without getting paid in full in advance?

Didn't this owner just purchase this boat from a brokerage that you're with? Did he finance it? If so I think the lender would be keen to know that he is already racking up potential liens against their security.

To me it's important to not only have a reputation as a skillful captain, but also as a person not to be taken advantage of. The last things you want to do is be the last owner of a boat or the last person who lends someone money. As for the amount, I'd pay $200 for a night's entertainment. Holding someone to task is entertainment for me, and I schedule it for when it's convenient for me. So to me it's like going to the movies. Ever watch legal drama's on TV? I don't believe in lawyers (although they're a necessary evil). So I never let out more than can be handled in Small Claims Court. That way I handle everything myself, and get a night's entertainment for a $27 filing fee. Back when I was in the business I once got a $16,000 account that had been through (2) collection agencies, and a lawyer who took judgment. A judgment and a Metro Card will get you on a subway. It's toilet paper unless you have their assets. I made 4 phone calls, and collected the money. I took $8,000, the attorney took $1,600. After waiting years the creditor got $6,500. I've dealt with people who would kill your whole family for a fraction of that loss, because they know word spreads about soft touches. I'm sure there are many who will be happy to know that they can take $200 from you and not have to pay it back. Ten of them means $2,000. Is that your number? 100 loses you $20,000. Think you know 100 people who could use some free money?

A few year back we had a fellow named Rockerfeller (not Rockefeller) come out to the Hamptons. He took those folks for hundreds of thousands of dollars at a few thousand each, because he knew they wouldn't want to make a fuss. Eventually he ran into someone who objected to being taken advantage of regardless of the amount. Were it not for him Rockerfeller would still be making the rounds today, and probably on a yacht.

Why not call the PB Post + have some reporter do an article @ this guy? Or this phenomenon?

High wire act snake oil charming entrepreneur's can't afford body blow bad PR.

Nycap your are a funny guy. It may be personal satisfaction but at the end of the day you are still losing even if you do collect your entire bill. I'm with J on this. Why spend countless billable hours chasing down deadbeats? I've gone through the process and won't do it again. Next time I get to a fuel dock and the cc is denied I am walking away. The boat can sit there until the owner comes and picks it up and settles HIS bill.

most of the time the card is run after the fuel is in the boat....

but, as I once witnessed ( '65) when a lien is put against a documented vessel, it goes thru federal courts, and if judged to be legit, the looser pays for everything including all lawyer's fees............has it changed ??

In my case I put the lien on the boat. It was documented in Babylon NY. I had to go to Long Island to file the lien. I waited the correct amount of time as required by NY state law and then filed for foreclosure on the boat. After I filed for foreclosure I got notice from federal court in NY that the owner had filed for bankruptcy and the boat was being auctioned off. I was so far down the list of creditors that I recieved absolutely zero.

Yachtguy
Sad to say, but the world is full of frauds! Deliberately bouncing a check or committing a theft of service is criminal in many states. You may have your choice of states depending upon how this transaction sequenced. In criminal actions, the prosecutor very often seeks retribution of fees so its worth a try. It might be a good idea in the future, do a pre check on your customers before you go? There are services for that. If your customer resists, that might tell you something. If he doesn't want to get checked, do a big escrow with your bank . If he doesn't want to do that, stay ashore and have a beer. Another thing you might want to check is that your client is the actual owner and has insurance that covers YOU. Get yourself named as an additional insured. Ask your lawyer about all these issues. I WISH YOU GUYS HAD SOME ASSOCIATION THAT WOULD REGULARIZE ALL OF THIS STUFF IN A STANDARD AGREEMENT?? I've suggested this before, but was told that it would cut into business??

I am an attorney, but I am not offering legal advice here, just responding as a member.

I started an association up here. No dues. We brought the day rate up from $125-200 a day to $400, and set up a referral system so everyone made money and nobody had to worry about losing a client, so more clients got taken care of and everyone had more business. I ran it for a few years. But when i tried to get someone to take over, since there was no pay there was zero interest. This is a business that will never organize.

Maybe there is a service market for Carl, off site?? He certainly has the clientele

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. You know I did it for free, but there's no saying it has to be. The business really does need a union, but I doubt I'll ever see it. Recreational captains are too independent, too distrusting and too spread out nationally and internationally.

So when you Capt's do deliveries you get zero money up front ? Or does it depend on the individual contract ?

BTW that was supposed to read "restitution", he may seek retribution, but that don't get you no $$

I get all estimated expenses up front, a credit card or enough cash to cover all estimated fuel, dockage and food, and a median estimate for all salaries. i.e. I've made the run from NY to Miami in 5 days and 23 days, depending on boat, weather and sea conditions. So I'll get 2 weeks of salary up front and bill if it takes longer. Most times though I'll be giving a refund of unused expenses and salaries. If someone's money needs to be hung up it's to be the owners, not the transporters. I'm just a working guy, not rich enough to support a yacht, especially someone else's. He is.

NYCAP- my time is also worth money. I'm not going to chase someone for months and make it a personal vendetta to collect a few hundred dollars.

CaptJ

I would think that at least filing the lien which is really fairly simple would help your fellow captains. If the next captain does a search of his potential client he will see that lien and take evasive action.

Keeping a list of these deadbeats could be part of your association's service if one ever gets formed? Maybe it could develop a closed forum for working captains only?

I get all estimated expenses up front, a credit card or enough cash to cover all estimated fuel, dockage and food, and a median estimate for all salaries.

NYCAP
How does the 'salary' thing work - are they your employees or independents? Who does the 1099 tax filings - which get "crazy " for 2015.