VIDEO - Sunk Bertram Discussion

To which chain do you refer?

I'm beginning to wonder if the anchor was perhaps in the chain locker rather than on the pulpit - could it have punched through the bow and set off the series of events? Would this even be a realistic scenario?

For some reason, I'm still thinking the buoy chain, but thats obviously pure speculation?

Far
Thanks for the report.
Were the items in the salon (against the bulkhead) things that would have floated "up" first? Not that it matters, I'm just curious. I think I'm the only one who hasn't seen the video.

Dave

I load on average 2+ yachts a month on various freightors (Yachtpath, Dockwise, Seven Star). This is most likely what happened with the insurance. The ship was cancelled in Newport and they could only load it in Fort Lauderdale in 3-4 days or else the owner would have to wait months for another ship, and/or lose his $60k plus shipping payment. The Captain probably needed to leave right NOW, in order to make the ship in Fort Lauderdale or for the weather window. The owner being in a foreign country might not have been reachable that day in order to sign the insurance policy, or pay for it. Or possibly, the insurance company needed payment and that would take several days for the wire transfer to clear to pay for the insurance ryder. Therefore, the Captain or the owner made an executive decision to run the vessel without the insurance and take the risk so that the Bertram would make the ship and the owner would recieve his vessel and not lose the $60k+ he paid to have it shipped. It was most likely a timing issue, and thats why they left without insurance.

As for it being the Captain's fault he left un-insured, if he told the owner about the insurance and the owner made the decision to run without it, it is no liability or fault of the Captains. There is no law stating that a vessel need be insured if there is no loan on it. Also the Captain is not liable for paying for the vessel either as long as he was running it in a safe and prudent manner and did not intentionally do anything.

Also, once ownership has changed hands MarineMax's insurance is not liable for paying for the vessel unless it was in the care of marinemax and they were running it to or from their location to do work on it as far as I see it. Or it was agreed upon in the contract that Marinemax would be responsible for delivering and loading it onto the freighter......Otherwise, the second it leaves their sales location and they are not the registered owner, their insurance is no longer binding.

Unless Bertram can prove without a doubt that something substantial sank this vessel (such as hitting a container), IMO they are liable for replacing the vessel under the hull warranty.

No Ctdave, I haven't seen it either.

Teddy, all good, i was refering to her entry, if u compare her to a respectable custom builder she could be a bit better. as u say, at the end of the day, she should be taking on 3-4' until the day i become a pensioner (a long time).

is the 3-4' wave height the skippers call from on top of the flybridge at 25knts, or the weather report? im just suggesting things can look a bit different from height and at speed? it could of been 4-5'+

far

Seafarer
Ok, you got me. I'm scared just looking at your old boat! HAH!
I quit offshore when my wife was pregnant 7 years ago just because I thought I'd better be here. I doubt I would have mustered up the nerve to run your old boat even before that!

CTdave, granite table doesnt float... do they, it could of been the tide ripping through? im trying to push for the transom coming off when it hit the bottom

far

Completely irrelevant to the thread, but I've been doing wire transfers for years, onshore and offshore. Even from an Isle of Man trust it takes no more than 36 hours for funds to clear with only one comma in the amount.

Somewhere (early on) in the romper room thread it was confirmed from the weather service that seas were 2 to 4', and relatively mild. (in that they weren't 4+ seas)

PropBet, i guess that puts that one to rest. cheers

far

No far, granite does not float. Neither do granite tables. What's with the sarcastic response to a straight forward question?

Tabbing Delamination

Lots of interesting theories. I would offer one more....

If we accept the Capitan's description of events and factor in the missing transom then a reasonable conclusion is Delamination by the secondary bonds, tabbing of the the bulkheads, tabbing for the Transom if it was built in a ****ed mold..... ... this may happen slowly until too many connections are broken, then as the bow folds up the hull sides pooch out and off comes the foredeck - the offshore race boat 'stuff and destruct' senario... But the transom loss is very difficult to explain without the secondary bonding delamination theory....

Also there seems to be no full width bulkhead in front of the main stateroom. This is not a bad thing but does require special design and construction to work around. See GA drawing in youtube videos...

CTdave, no sarcasm was ment. my luck today, granite would float.

far

teddy, i think if the boat hit the buoy, the chain is to deep to find its way to the shaft/prop. with the buoy sitting normally in the water, the chain starts about 5' down last time i checked. then again its a resonable theory like all the others. cheers

far

Hi,

You should try it sometime.

Many MTU/ZF Setups just like others limit the speed at which direction can be changed by timer and or not letting the astern clutch oil pressure engage till the forward one has fully released and even then there is quite a bit of slip as the clutch tries to take up the drive then comes the cavitation action with lots and lots of thumpng and banging till the boat slows down an starts to go backwards and it decreases some.

It is a common test on Sea Trials and is known as a Crash Stop - I have heard of Head Gaskets blowing on older boats but never heard of any structural damage or Tuna Towers falling off.

This scenario seems more likely then one big stuff ocurring. There was some hidden damage that the surveyor did not pick up on. Damage that possibly occured during dry dock or when the boat was being lifted. This damage may have also ocurred because of some questionable construction.

Monday will be the 18th..

I look forward to the video.

Has a dropped/ deployed anchor and chain been dismissed? that could have ripped the bow apart? Sorry, just my two cents. Although puny, there are no chain marks on the bow uw paint. Where is the anchor and chain?