VIDEO - Sunk Bertram Discussion

I wasn't priveleged enough to see the video yet, but.

This is a great theory, but where is the Tug and Barge. It would severly effect the tow, the hauser, and the tow boat would know about it, without a doubt if a 100,000 lb sportfish hit their tow hauser at 25+ knots. The tug and barge would be identified and probably the first to circle back and try to assist. The Tow hauser would most likely be severed. The accident definately would have been reported by the Tow boat. They don't run long tow hausers in shallow water like this happened in anyways.

As far as I know, wiring should not be run inside of the coring material, ever. Nor should parts of the coring be whittled out for electrical boxes. The hull should be completely sealed inside and out and only, necessary things bolted into it, ie bilge pump/float switch screws, engine mounts and those bedded in with 5200 or resin. Running wiring inside of the coring (I've never heard of such a thing) and cutting part of the coring out, is a disastor waiting to happen. It is inviting a way for moisture and water to get into the coring and only a matter of time before delamination sets in.

HAH! Leave it to Carl for pulling that one off unscathed

Very nice to have one of America's finest among us! Welcome "YES" Stan & a big thanks to you and your fellow military men and women.

David

While I agree water is more than capable of that level of destruction.

In many cases a race boat, like a race car, is purposely built light and in many cases at the edge of being too light to handle the stresses put on it just to go faster and hopefully survive long enough to win.

While IMHO a properly built large sportfish should be built to survive short and long term stresses a pure race boat never would.

And again, from what I've read, it was not an unusually rough day when this incident took place.

As to a large amount of flare having anything to do with it, I would think a properly built boat with a lot of flare would be less likely to come apart. As the flare would spread the force of the impact as well as dissipating it. But that is only conjecture on my part from having run several boats with "Carolina flare" over the years.

I just saw the video, Thank You. I am completely in shock after seeing the video in entirety.

The entire foredeck is just gone, yet the joinery inside the salon looks un-touched. The transom is gone and the deck hatches are all gone, but the engine room looks pretty un-touched. Here are some things I noticed.

It appears to me that the outer layer of fiberglass is pretty thin. (However I am not a boat builder). To me, it looks like the boat was built very light. Especially compared to the Viking SF pictures where it hit a whale and it showed the layers of glass peeled off of the coring.

There are area's where the fiberglass is intact on both the inside and outside skin, but the coring is completely gone from about a foot of the inside of it. Almost as if the coring disintegrated leaving the two outer skins to hold everything together.

Does anyone know if the hull of the Bertram is solid glass and the hull sides are cored, or is the entire hull cored? The hull sides seem to be broken off or severed at the same height pretty much all of the way around. Could this be from where the coring starts......say 12" above waterline?

The transom broke right behind the bulkhead on the side, but the outer fiberglass skin is cracked in many areas on the transom.

There were some deep up and down gouges in the bottom paint on the starboard exhaust that I found to look strange. Almost like abraison from a cable.

Could the vessel being subjected to freezing temperatures in the winter, have an effect on the core's integrity or it's adhesion to the fiberglass skin?

There is no way this delamination occured under-water while it was sitting on the ocean floor.

Was the boat surveyed prior to purchase? Did it find any issues such as bulkhead tabbing?

To me, the theory of the core gassing off and causing adhesion issues between it and the outer fiberglass makes the most sense. I really doubt a hit from a 200lb buoy would do this, a shipping container yes, BUT the damage is too elevated to think shipping container.

i've seen the video now in full length, i thank you carl, its a very sick footage - i've not followed the discussion thread, as i was 10 pages long as i first saw it and i know when not to read a long discussion

about the movie, you have it in higher quality? i've just thought about watching it on my bigger tv screen, maybe in high def *g*

There will be a point of transference between the two as both are involved in the entirety of the vessel. There are multiple types of delamination involved. In the case of where the glass delaminated from the core, it'll be hard to determine exactly where one stops and the other picks up after this much time under water. However, that's not the delamination that catches my eye. What I also observe in a few places is delamination of fiberglass layers from each other, and that should not be able to be inflicted ever. It means there were some issues in the layup. I also saw fiberglass joints on the bulkheads that popped off clean rather than tearing out the glass which means the joint didn't meet it's engineered strength or adhesion. Everything I see about the damage on this boat just says to me "hot mix". That's just my gut feeling, but my gut has been fed a steady diet of making and crashing fiberglass parts all of my life.

Thanks for the video. Any chance of seeing a high res? I'm in Lauderdale till mid Feb...

As I have also been in offshore racing I have seen boats crashing and split in two pieces or a hundred, much like if they had exploded, so anything is possible when disaster has begun.

What is strange here is the missing transom, especially since I saw on some of the last pictures that the tower was still there...? Somebody else got that impression?

Thanks Carl – that makes fascinating watching. It will be interesting to hear the conclusions of those professionals charged with finding the cause of the sinking. In the mean time, this video does give some indication of how the transom ‘might’ have come off so cleanly.

Do you mean removed as when airplanes are often without the company name after a crash?

Hi Lars,

No – I meant ‘as in’ water pressure building inside the hull and blowing the transom off!

But isn´t most of the transom above the deck? Then I rather believe in a failed attempt to lift the boat...

Lars - I think you are probably right. I need to go back and look at the video again!

Bertram are still solid glass bottom, and cored side decks
according to their site they use divinycell today and they vacuum the sides.
Mind you this is a 2005 built, 2006 model so may be for this they have not started using vacuum yet. For this, you have to ask them.

Apparently (speculation) the boat was surveyed and even sounded, and no one found anything. If this is true and the boat had hull failure, this is my biggest fear in all this...
The only fully cored Bertrams are the ones build in early ninties late eighties, using balsa.

Hi Lars,

Yes, I do agree with you - however, we now have the owner's statement which says the transom was intact when the vessel was abandoned and, unless someone else was on scene before the USCG helicopter arrived, no one saw the vessel again until the divers arrived. Is it possible that water/compressed air pressure, as well as the speed of descent and impact, ripped the transom off? Or that it snagged the reef on the way down?

First off I would like to thank Carl for sending me the link. I was'nt sure if I was degrading the discussion in any way so I voluntarily unsubscribed. I think you do a great job around here and I didnt want to add any undeserved headaches. Thanks again.

At one point in the video it showed the port side from where the captains controls are, all the way to the remainder of the bow. For a split second I saw a straight line as if the boat may have been sitting on its nose at some point. The only thing that throws that theory out the window possibly is the remainder of the tower. I had a thought that maybe the tower is floating in place connected only by some wiring.
I dont know enough about these boats to recognize what the diver was showing in the engine room on top of the motor. To me it looked like some kind of small light bulb. I was wondering if someone could tell me what that might have been? Thanks

I would love to see the video?

Thanks

I still cannot believe the owners were not properly insured and that Marine Max did not have some kind of coverage that would extend to boats where their captain was moving them after purchase ... designed specifically to cover this type of thing where there was somebody underinsured or improperly insured.

And ... I suppose to some degree Marine Max is insured for this type of thing ... it's called E&O and they will all battle it out in court.

Still ... would have been much easier if the owner had insurance in place and that Marine Max had seen to that before letting their Captain move the vessel. I remember there was a "change of destination" where the boat was going to be delivered to one location (properly insured) and then the destination changed (improperly insured).

The video is incredible and brings up some good points about core above the waterline ... like ... what if the entire front section of the boat from below the waterline and above was solid? Or ... I suppose ... what if the epoxies used had a proper mix and the core and glass had adhered properly. Then we might not be having this discussion.

My 1984 Bertram 54 is cored above the waterline .. I think.

Very fortunate that the crew was able to keep it together to make the mayday calls and deploy the raft.