Click for Burger Click for Abeking Click for JetForums Click for Northern Lights Click for Glendinning

Tragic Dive boat fire in California

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by PacBlue, Sep 2, 2019.

You need to be registered and signed in to view this content.
  1. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    12,978
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    Now, imagine the other direction. Lack of safe guidance, direction, enforcement.
    The owner sets the safety requirements. The owner tells the captain how to remove the trash and where, they direct safety routines.
    And they ensure their boat is safe. AND test these requisites.
    The buck stops at the captain, mostly; The liability stops at the top (owners).

    Simple test;
    You hire a captain to move a canoe from one side of the creek to the other side.
    Your instructions include to ensure safe operation, all wear PFDs and install the drain plug before launching.
    Several months later, the canoe is still intact after a few back and forth trips and you assume your instructions are followed.
    Then one day, The canoe sinks. All drown except the captain you hired.
    Seems the plug was never installed (captain paddled quickly before the canoe sank until this last transit) and nobody was wearing their PFDs.
    Captains fault, Yes.
    Your fault, Yes. You own that canoe, pay the bills and at the top of the liability target list.
    No requisites were tested, managed or followed upon.
    You hired the lucky & sub rate captain. Yes, you are to blame also.

    More people need to go to prison, Ben..
    Last edited: May 2, 2024
  2. Cpt Sous-Leau

    Cpt Sous-Leau Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2024
    Messages:
    56
    Location:
    USA, Earth
    I guess for me, the equation is; If 34 died as a result of GROSS negligence, gets 4 years, how many does one have to kill to get the full 10?

    Shesh, I don't care if the guy is 70. A lot of his victims never saw 25.
  3. Cpt Sous-Leau

    Cpt Sous-Leau Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2024
    Messages:
    56
    Location:
    USA, Earth
    USCG was happy enough with the boat condition in 2018 and 19:

    Federal and international regulations require boats over a certain size to be made of fire resistant materials and to
    include fire sprinklers and smoke detectors wired into the ship's electronics or linked to the bridge. Given the
    vessel's age and size, Conception, at less than 100 GT and with fewer than 49 berths, was not covered by those
    regulations. It was constructed of wood covered with fiberglass, as permitted by regulations last updated in
    1978.[11][12] At the time of the fire, Conception was believed to be in compliance with those regulations, and the
    most recent Coast Guard inspections in February 2019 and August 2018 did not result in any noteworthy
    violations.
    [13][14][11] According to the vessel's Certificate of Inspection, it had a maximum capacity of 103: 4
    crew and 99 passengers; one crewmember was required to be designated as a roving patrol at all times when the
    passenger bunks were occupied

    Seems to me, the owners gave the captain a fit vessel for the intended use. I have no idea what instructions were given by the owners, but I would SERIOUSLY doubt they would tell the captain to not maintain a fire watch at night. Notwithstanding if one is required or not, I can't see an owner telling the captain to do something both dangerous, and foolhardy.
  4. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    12,978
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    In my above simple example, The canoe would probably pass all inspections also.
    My point was the complacency of all and lack of proper stewardship of the operation.

    Lets look at something different;
    Airline attendants,,, You think they just serve peanuts?
    Young, old, pretty, ugly, male, female, undetermined,, these folks have gobbles hours of training for the passengers safety.
    The captain may be in charge butt he whole company is responsible for your safe passage.
    Not one of them goes to pee with out a plan.
    Cruise ships run a similar stewardship of your safety.

    Nobody is told to not be safe, but it is the responsibility of all, to make sure it is safe. Including some old puke on land behind an old desk.
    Last edited: May 2, 2024
  5. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    12,978
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    Another view;
    Late one cold night on the front, an officer was following up on his sentries and pickets. He found two asleep.
    One was directly under this officers charge.
    He pulled out his pistol and shot this sleeping sentry, knowing he (the officer) would be shot if it was discovered he let this issue pass.

    So, Keeping this next question back on the boat; who was scheduled on fire watch?
    If not shot, He also needs to go to prison.
  6. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,266
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    The biggest issue I have with this accident is how USCG inspectors could have certified the vessel to sleep so many passengers with a single primary exit and an emergency exit located on top of a bunk. This thing was a death trap which should have never been certified to carry so many

    Yes the captain and the owner are responsible but the USCG is just as responsible.

    When USCG inspectors certify a vessel to carry passengers, they state it is safe to do so. It tells the owners and crew the vessel is safe. This is the worst failure in this accident.
    Capt Ralph likes this.
  7. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    12,978
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    All may have been safe if the boat was operated correctly.
    I would say that this certification came with certain requirements,, including a fire watch
  8. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,266
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    Yes a fire watch would have helped but still outrageous to allow 49 pax below deck with one regular exit and one restricted emergency exit
    Capt Ralph likes this.
  9. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    12,978
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    Outrageous is not BIG enough of a word to use here. Murderous* comes to my mind.

    *Capable of devastating or overwhelming, 34 times..
  10. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,456
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Problem is, the boat met the rules when it was built, and is grandfathered in. Most rule changes would make older boats way too costly to retrofit if they had to be adhered to.
  11. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    12,978
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    Yes, the rules were adopted to include fire watch. Seems not adhered to.
  12. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,456
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    I was speaking of the 2nd escape hatch for the living quarters also exiting into the salon area instead of to the exterior of the vessel. How would you "retrofit" a fire watch, you would start one or add one.
  13. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2004
    Messages:
    12,978
    Location:
    Satsuma, FL
    There could of been 10 hatches to the outside. All worthless in a fire of these materials erupting as fast as they do.
    Poor folk were dead in their sleep just from a few seconds of fumes before anything was engulfed in flames.
    And you know WTF I mean in fire watch; An awake person required watching over the sleeping occupants.
    Required by the COI for boats of this use and utility.
  14. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,456
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    I was not commenting on them not having a fire watch, they should have had one, no if's and's or but's. My comment was simply referring to the build of the boat, and the 2 hatches from the living quarters exiting inside the boat.