Tragic accident: USCG & pleasure boat

Well, the 2 week "paper captains" course comes after 720 days of operations under someone else's tutelage. Regardless though there is an apparent issue in the CG Coxswains course and the post graduate supervision. If the training provided leads to results like this, well, then they need to step up the program.

Sorry cap, you'll have to wait for a verdict. I am simply stating the fact that the coxwain is inadequately trained and supervised. If he were not the tragedy would not have occurred. How much more do you need to understand that he didn't know there was something innately wrong with speeding around blind in the dark in the midst of a horde of recreational boats? I didn't say he had criminal intent, I said he was not trained to evaluate the conditions and operate accordingly. He was not supervised closely enough for someone to recognize that he didn't know any better. As a result a child was killed.

I have a serious problem with the type of unbridled authority that leads to the kind of incident that killed that child. I have a problem with the training system and the supervision that allowed the Charleston collision to occur, and the Miami collision, and how many others. I have a problem with the system that allows the reckless operation of CG small boats that endangers innocent civilians and kills other young coasties because they were not adequately trained to recognize the potential for disaster and were not under supervision adequate to prevent the operation that killed them.

Be careful how you play the service card, cap, like I said it is a cheap shot and you (if you were) aren't the only one here to go in harm's way to serve the country. Jingoism doesn't replace training, oversight, or competence. It doesn't excuse the inexcusable and trying to play the "service" card is contemptible. Save your flag waving for the 4th of July.

Running that boat at high speed in the dark through an anchorage full of recreational boaters is no different than if a fighter jock screamed down the channel at water level and crashed into a boat. It was "flat-hatting" and an innocent child was killed. You might want to try and blame the kid or his dad but that doesn't wash, that is really low class and shows you have a problem with reality and can't differentiate between authority and responsibility.

According to the CG spokesman, in the last several years they've logged over 2.5 million hours of small boat operations. In that time they've had 3 class A and 10 class B mishaps. Considering their duties that's not a bad record. It certainly doesn't support a claim of being riddled with "systemic incompetence and inadequate training".

With that I will sign off for the evening and wish you and the others reading this thread, a warm and pleasant Christmas Eve and a very Merry Christmas.

Henning you are right after 720 od "self documented time" under the supervision of another self taught captain with a 2 week school. The CG has an extreme coxswain/ heavy weather, and surf schools that are second to none. So explain to me the itraining ssue please. Tell me how many hours CG small boats had underway in 2009 include training, SAR, LE, marine spills, PR, and homeland security patrols and vsl escorts. Then I would like for you to tell me how many lives were saved compare all of this to the amount of mishaps there were and let me know if you still think the training is substandard. I wish that everyone could be as flawless as you and Marmot but we all can't be, yes a terrible thing happened but don't put down the whole service.

Maybe we should let the CG auditors and brass speak for themselves: The last audit anyone can get without a new FOIA request is 2002, here are some excerpts:

"Besides working excessive hours, the dwindling numbers of experienced SAR station personnel are continually burdened with the requirement to provide `on-the-job' training to an increasing number of inexperienced personnel. Boatswains Mates account for over 60 percent of the coxswains and boat crewmembers assigned to Coast Guard SAR stations. However, no entry-level training school currently exists for all active duty Boatswains Mates, even though 20 other Coast Guard enlisted job specialties do receive formal entry-level training ranging from 4 to 26 weeks in length.
Given these serious staffing and training shortfalls, it is not surprising to see an increase in the number of accidents involving Coast Guard rescue boats. Coast Guard data shows that, in fiscal year 2000, there were 130 rescue boat accidents, which represents a 225 percent increase over the 40 accidents that occurred during fiscal year 1998. The Coast Guard found that over half of these accidents were caused by navigational and operational errors or poor judgement ..."

"Coast Guard data shows that, during the past 3 years, over 50 Coast Guard members either fell overboard or were ejected from rigid-hull inflatable boats. As recently as March 2001, two Coast Guard members from Station Niagara lost their lives when their rigid-hull inflatable boat capsized and ejected its four-member crew into Lake Ontario. Despite their potential hazards, these non-standard rescue boats are not subject to formal readiness inspections. In addition, boat coxswains may not have adequate training on how to safely operate these boats. In July 2000, in response to a rise in accidents involving these boats, the Coast Guard conducted an internal study on non-standard rescue boat operations. To date, the Coast Guard has made little progress in implementing the majority of the study's recommendations."

And to focus on the issue at hand, read carefully the findings of the CG investigators in these two incidents:

http://www.uscg.mil/foia/docs/MSSTAnchCapsizeFDL.PDF

http://www.uscg.mil/FOIA/docs/MSSTAnchEjectionFDL 27Apr09_SIGNED FINAL .pdf

Very good info

The kid driving the 30 footer in San Diego most likely has NOT been through surf school out on the Columbia River bar. Most lives saved by the CG are done by the Air Wing.

I agree he probably had not been a surfman as they are few and far between, I was just listing some of the schools provided. As far as Aristations making the majority of the rescues I agree they do a lot but your meat and potatoes of it is still the boat crews. Weather you see it on TV or not any time a helo is launched a boat crew is responding also. As most boaters, boat inshore a call goes to the local station, the OOD launches boat crews and contacts locals to save you. Sometimes the boat gets there sometimes locals sometimes a helo but its still the same result.

You condemn a guy in a go-fast for killing himself by going too fast at night in an empty channel, and defend a Coastie going too fast at night in a congested anchorage area. Which is actually more dangerous? They seem to be equally deadly when something goes wrong, but many more people are affected in the busy anchorage.

You condemn the heck out of owners who choose to move their boats and have work done, but decry the loss of boatyards and builders seemingly without realizing it takes owners paying big checks to them to keep those jobs in place.

Puzzling.

The Coasties do an admirable job protecting us from many threats and hazards. That should never be a license to become a threat or hazard themselves.

Love people who read selectively.
1) I wasn't aware that the guy who crashed here had closed that waterway to other boats. In fact I didn't even know a person could do that.
2) Please show where I defended the actions of the CG coxwain.
3) If that last paragraph goes where I think it does I do condemn tax cheats and others who try to increase their wealth on the backs of those less fortunate.

We can only read what you write... not what you intend to, but don't.

Really? To repeat post 34:

Sorry that my limited language skills can't make it more clear to you. Or is it just that I didn't scream lynch him and disband the USCG that upset you?

I think that was the problem. If we both did that, this thread would have ended 5 pages ago.

The eager and rampant bashing of the CG (as well as other agencies) in this thread makes me sick.

How do you think the DeWeese family feels today?

What other agencies have been eagerly bashed by rampant posters? I haven't read a word of criticism here that the CG itself didn't publish in its own investigative findings.

Hi,

Having seen quite a bit of agency bashing going on throughout this thread I would like to add my 2c worth.

I am neither an American resident nor Citizen.

I have travelled to and from the US since 1984 with a B1/B2 Visa first of all as a multiple indefinite one and then twice with a 10 yr life span since 1989.

I have never overstayed nor had any legal issues in the US to the best of my knowledge.

I arrived in Orlando in 2006 with my daughter who was 5 yrs old to meet my wife ( my daughters mother) who had been to a business seminar in FLL in the preceding week.

My daughter was admitted by US Immigration and I was not at first, when the not too friendly non native english speaking Homeland Security Person told me my daughter had to go and collect her baggage and I had to go to secondary immigration I was perplexed. When he physically tried to pull her from my grasp and got threatening with me I lost my cool to put it mildly. A supervisor arrived who took both of us to secondary and his first concern was calming my daughter down something -that was very well appreciated.

I answered a few questions and was admitted, this subsequently needed me to submit to a full fingerprint testing with the FBI for which I had to pay $ 85 in cash to prove I wasn't who they thought I was and an in depth interview at an embassy near me to see if I spoke Farsi or had a serious suntan that was previously undetected. One of their strange questions concerned me being in Puerto Rico 2 yrs before I even had a passport so it was a mystery to me and the Senior guy who dealt with us in a very pleasant and friendly manner at all times. His consideration of my daughters angst was very well appreciated.

I get the deep and personal search every time I travel in the US.I am told this is because my tickets are bought online. I don't believe this.

I find the whole Homeland Security thing is a joke. They give everyone a uniform without regard to if it fits them worth a **** or not and a gun. This gives the majority of these operatives some feeling of superiority over everyone else including you US born and Bred suffers.

The USCG Inland OPS is unfortunately a victim of the testosterone pumped Law Enforcement culture that pervades in the US so how can they be expected to behave any different regardless of the collateral damage and subsequent cursory inquiry normally looking at how to avoid witnesses I would say?

As a result of my hassle in Orlando I had to go to an Embassy who told me they had no record of me having a criminal record in the US hence the fingerprint thing. I subsequently got a C1/D and B1/B2 Visa for 10 yrs.

That is my rant so give it a go if ya want ,my mind and personal perception wont be changed easily.

If it is too much Carl please feel free to dump it.

I think this statement by SeaFarer sums up the general consensus among us.
What I find most interesting is how heated this thread has become. Maybe this reflects the resentment that many have toward the increasing power of government and authority. If nothing else, threads like this allow us to vent certain frustrations...

Sounds like you've got a name similar to one one the T.W. list. My sympathies. If it's any consolation I get the royal treatment almost every time I fly because I book 1 way, last minute. It's the Bush legacy like our wonderful TWIC. You were lucky that you found a person who knew how to use his head instead of the book only one step up on the ladder. The militaristic mindset goes through all of our military and law enforcement communities. It comes from 8 years of scare tactics for political purposes. At least the pendulum is starting to swing back toward the middle, but it will take a long time.