The Meanest Predator yet!

What exactly do you mean she is just a sunseeker?

Well if you are from Cyprus than you have probably heard about the Predator that was time ago moored in Limassol (there aren't that many there)...and all the stuff that was going around that unfortunate yacht, delamination, tanks leaking...

Sunseeker is a light, structurally underdimensioned yacht, that due to inercia starts to suffer this over a certain lenght/weight/power ratio. keeping them slow is the best one can do.

When i said "just a sunseeker" i meant that on the market they(sunseekers) are not seen as mercedeses or bmwes or audis, but rather opels/vauxhalls/gms and therefore no need to super charge them with mega options and custom paint etc... as it is like with the cars; you never get back the after market investements on a "people's carrier" (volkwagen )

So, in your opinion, what are the mercedeses/bmws/audis of the boating world? You really surprise me..

I've been actively involved with pleaure boating since I was 9 and -believe me- I have seen boats from supposedly very "respectable and reputable " brands (american/italian/french/german/british) have very serious problems and suffer a lot more than sunseekers, with build quality to laugh about!! At least with sunseekers you get what is probably one of the most original, distinctive, recognisable and timeless/classic design/shape and prestigious branding, fantastic rough-sea hull design and performance, luxurious accommodation, top-quality materials, excellent service and support, and definitely pride of ownership. They may need a bit more consistency and tidiness in the enginerooms or behind-the-scenes (although recent ones I've seen have nothing to complain about compared to other, much more expensive production brands). Also they may not be as practical, as spacious or as easy to liveaboard as other boats-especially american, but there are boats a lot worse out there.

Ever since I laid eyes on a sunseeker for the first time at Brighton marina during my higher education in the UK in the late eighties, I have fallen in love with them and have since owned three (1987 Portofino 31, 1990 Martinique 36 and currently a 1994 Camargue 46) and I have never had any problems with either boat whatsoever, nor would I ever consider spending my money on anything else (I am already planning to move on to a 1999 Predator 54). I like and respect Azimut's open S-Line a lot, Riva's, Baglietto's etc, but for me only sunseeker clicks!

Best regards

Emilios

Dear Emilios, carefully reading my post you would have noticed that I was reffering to larger Sunseekers, and since the whole thread is about Shiver (108') I have nothing to explain to you here.

I agree with you that in a range up to 60' Sunseeker rules, the gelcoat is good and the performance/price/quality ratio is high. What I said is that this formula fails when it comes to large yachts, and sunseeker is having this problem, applying building and construction technniques from "small" yachts to a big size, if not mega yachts. Where they want to step in is an area where are also yachts like PJ. And please, let's not compare here.

They are asking 7.000.000 Euro (7.900.000$) for Shiver. We'll talk again when and for what they sell, ok?

Interesting find on YachtWorld:

http://www.**************/

Don't believe I've ever seen a build spec that was "unfathomed" before

Oops, i missed for a rounded 1.000.000$ and I thought it was expensive!

Invite

Hi Emilios

Nice to here that you are a proud owner of a Suneeker
Next time you are at the factory come and see me at Shipyard One and I will give you a tour around our facilities

Best Regards
Darren

Hi Teena

Just thought I'd drop you a line...
The owner of Shiver has at least 16 other boats and only 2 of them are Sunseekers
Everyone of them are for sale.
Most owners put their boats up for sale prior to taking delivery of them

The owner of Shiver bought a 118 Palmer Johnston after taking delivery of Shiver and has now sold her

Darren

That's interesting to hear Darren. Does this rule hold true for yachts of all sizes? Or is there some size cut-off below which most of the new yachts are not immediately for sale?

Kelly Cook

Hi Darren,

thanks for the offer!! Sorry I'm late in responding to you but I have been away (out on my boat of course!!) and just returned from a splendid long weekend. I actually did visit the factory once in 2000 where I took a Camargue 50 for a seatrial and had a tour of the facilities - very impressive indeed! Next time I visit the UK I do plan on a re-visit so I will keep you posted.

Best regards

Emilios

Dear Teena,

I agree totally with you what you said about the Sunseekers. I was working on a 53 Portofino built in 2004 and I never ever have been on boat with so many mistakes. The boat was leaking on all ends, the hydraulic was too weak for the hard-top, gel-coat work was really badly done, we had permanently electric problems, bilge pumps burned through every week at least one time and and and and.

By the way the Sunseeker in Limasol was in our marina for 1 year and I know all the problems of this boat. The owner now has 82 Predator and problems as well with this boat. We have another 50 Camarque in the marina and they have allmore or less problems. Sunseekers are very good looking boats, but the finish is not very good. They are saving on materials but the price of the boat is very high compared to other brands. Sunseekers are showboats, so called coffe-racers. To go out for a coffee is ok but stay away from bad weather or waves? By the way for 7 mio € you can get something better and bigger.

Boatman

Boatman,
I totally agree with you about showboats as on design nothing really touches them or even comes close! On the other hand though, sorry but it appears to me like you come from another planet... stay away from bad weather or waves? On a Sunseeker? Come on, stop sounding like you've never travelled on a boat. Over here in rough seas only Sunseekers are out travelling, and at speed - everything else is either in a marina, a protected bay or try to travel at snail's pace.

I do, however, also agree with you regarding the gelcoat, as I 've had problems with both of my boats so far. But electrics/wirings, bilge pumps etc no problem at all whatsoever.

Email me offline if you want and I can mention/show/prove to you much more expensive and very reputable boats/brands with very serious problems and design faults indeed.

Best regards

Emilios

Dear Emilio,

off course there are also other brands with mistakes or design faults. I have never worked on a boat which had no problems or defects.

The problems with the Sunseekers are that the proplems are already built in the shipyard in Poole/GB. Either they do not have a quality control or a very bad one. Fact is that the Sunseeker Portofino 53 with the hull no GB-XSK-.......05 was very bad manufactured. We have a list of over 40!! faulty positions which was repaired or still need to be repaired by Sunseeker (Warranty)And this on a boat which cost US$ 1.000.000,--?????

I always ask myself, if the Sunseekers are so good boats, why there are hundreds and hundreds of second hand Sunseeker boats and yachts on the market and many of them just 1 or 2 years old? Are theses all boats from satified customers, ordering a bigger Sunseeker?????? I don´t think so.

Sunseeker is living from its good design and the name they had 10 years ago.
But that´s all!

Best regards

Boatman
(Capt. on Trident I - Elegance 82)
We have the new boat with 118 feet under constuction. I am as well the project manager and I have references for other 4 yachts until 120 feet as project manager and supervisor.
Jobs the last 30 years on boats from 60 to 155 feet as captain. Seatime until today 340.000 nm.
I have only a little bit of expirience on boats but I am learning every day.

Hello ppl

I hope this thread is not forgotten as yet

I as well believe that Sunseeker is one of the best brands around to 82ft and perhaps the best in the open performance cruisers. I have gone out onboard with Portofino 53s, Portofino 46, Predator 55, Predator 61, Predator 68 & 75.
With regards those open cruisers the feel you get out in the sea is great, the boat feels very robust and you can manoeuvre rapidly in waves without feeling discomfort. The quality of built is definitelly there, the well balanced hull is also there.
With regards quality of finishing, I also think that it should be better (for eg. sikaflex on windows, on joints, teak planks, hardtops etc.). The Sunseeker factory has expanded rapidly over the last 4-5 years, a lot of personnel employed, in my opinion the control of quality and staff has somehow slipped from the management. If you have 500 technicians and 3-4 people in key positions to supervise and organise, you cannot have the same 3-4 managers for the current 2000 employees! If you reduce the build time from 10 days to just 5 days again you will lack in quality control. And all this at the expense of the shipyard flying out warranty engineers all the time and damage the reputation. And that damages the reputation indeed as a lot of not so much into yachting people that decide to buy a Sunseeker believe they are buying the perfect faultless yacht. Ofcourse this is also a matter of aftersales and dealerships, which is an issue but let's no get too political
Having said that Sunseekers remain one of the best yacht manufacturers, for their reputation in building beautiful yachts and some of the best hulls around and ofcourse the brand name; the luxury of being a "proud Sunseeker owner" which I have to give it to the marketing and promotion, they have raised the company profile very high.

As far as owners selling their brand new yachts, indeed there are a lot of owners that buy the slot and start to build at one year and immediatelly have it for sale. If it is a 100+ foot yacht of the custom yards next year's prices and following demand might make you sometimes 1-2m euros with the price difference for a a yacht that may cost about 10m euros.
There is definitelly a trend there

Cheers
Alx

It's interesting to see the opinions voiced here.

By the way I am not associated with Sunseeker or any yacht company.

QUALITY: The whole yacht and superyacht market is undergoing strong growth, which means new employees and represents a danger to build quality. I think all builders will have issues, but some may be managing better than others.

Also I might guess that, as with car producers, the best technicians will be sent to work on the flagship models, the biggest, latest ones, depriving the rest of the range of the more experienced workers.

DESIGN: I was recently aboard a older Sunseeker 105 Yacht and it reinforced my own personal opinion that they can't cut it on design compared to the competition. Obviously choice of interior is the owners, but even on the most modern Seeker, the style doesn't seem in the same leauge as the Italians. Additionally: Where Azimut have crafted custom seats which are a work of art in themselves on their 62s, Sunseeker put in the same old Bezenzonis. Look at a Riva, Pershing, Ferretti or Azimut wheel, also a custom design, whereas with Sunseker you get a cheaper popular aftermarket racing car wheel with their logo on it. Of course it is correct and fair to also say the competetive price may reflect these kind of shortcuts.

MANY SLIGHTLY USED YACHTS FOR SALE: Firstly this is simply because they are a popular yacht, the number of them out there. Sunseeker are a very well marketed company and may introduce many virgin people to the yachting lifestyle. Many owners are first time yacht owners. Therefore they may not use the yacht as much as they anticipated or it may have been more of an excercise of realising a dream and then moving on. Many of its clients do sell and move up a size. A example, Nigel Mansell has allowed himself to be filmed receiving his 94 yacht on television the other year. He had decided to upgrade from his smaller Sunseeker. A busy aftermarket indicates nothing negative about the brand. Any problems at that age would be resolved under warranty anyhow, I believe last time I spoke to them Sunseeker offered much more than 12 months warranty - unlike some other companies. Sunseeker are probably one of the best yachts to sell used since they are a "reasonable" price to begin with, and are attractive because of their status and name.

Shivers Range??

Darren or anyone else,

Can you clarify what Shiver's range is, considering she has 21,000 litres and most write ups state 450 miles.
I would presume that that range goes for the standard 11,000 litre tanks, even with a triple 2,000hp rig, it still states 450 miles.

As Shiver has a small MTU setup and large tankage I would expect her range to far exceed those stated.

Please enlighten me

Jay

Shiver

Shiver has twin Cat's C32's which are 1800hp each her 21,000 l fuel tanks give her a range of 1,600 NM+ depending on sea state and load.

And as for the Italian manufacture, yes they do put in nice shiny items on board like helm wheels and chairs etc but this is to divert your attention from the build quality. Bar Ferretti (and only just) the majority of Italian manufactures build very good looking boats but do not look behind the any panels or in the engine room, it will scare you.

I have never known a crew to complement the build quality of any Italian yacht in tens years (apart from an Italian crew). Not saying Sunseeker are faultless, far from it but a yacht is not just about how it looks, its about the quality. I think that’s where a yachts beauty lies in the fact you know its build quality is second to none. Have you ever looked at a Feadship or Lurssen and thought it was not a solid as a rock.

No I don’t work for Sunseeker….

Differing Helm setup for 108's

Sorry, I should have said CATs, not MTU's.

There seems to be a big difference in some of the 108's helm setup, one has multiple screens with all engine, nav etc info on, the other has mostly analogue gauges.

What a difference!!!!
I believe Shiver has the displays and M3 has analogue! But may be wrong.
Would put images up, but they are from other sites (Broker ones!) so best not to infringe their copyright.