Shortage of Yachts? FLIBS

OK

How can they be both?

If more shows are the result of more demand then how can there be too many shows?

I agree with this totally. There is next to nothing on the used market newer than 2008. Nobody bought new ones to replace the old ones.

I also agree with Marmot about the boat show expense of putting a boat in the show. Basically if a used boat isn't worth $1 million or more, it's not worth the cost of the show itself.

I also agree that there are more and more shows and not the demand. See manufacturers and brokers will put boats in these shows for exposure because they're afraid they'll look bad if they don't, even though they're primarily tire kicking events.

Treading lightly on the thin ice of existentialism here but show promoters don't invest huge piles of cash because they want me to "believe" something. They invest the cash because they have a very good idea they will receive a good return on that investment.

If there are more shows this year than last it is because the stats showed that demand outstripped supply, not because they sat around a bollard and sang "Kumbaya" with a bunch of hopeful brokers and boat trinket salesmen.

I also wonder if the proliferation of trawler type shows is because they are doing a better job of targeting their market and separating from the general boating market and the megayacht show costs. It also allows them to cater to the wider range of "needs" of that crowd that don't really exist for owners and crew of larger boats.

I think most brokerages pay dearly for any leads developed during a major show like FLIBS.

I've never been able to understand how the Ft. Lauderdale and the Miami show have been able to co-exist all these years. I quit going to the Miami show when they busted it up into 6 or 7 different venues...I cover enough dock miles just at FLIBS, let alone trying to hit a half dozen venues. Everything I need to see is at FLIBS. I'd hate to see FLIBS go the way of the Dodo bird.

No, the shows have become more popular as an event of just something to do. Or something to take your family to (non-buyers). The shows are productive for marine products, such as chairs, tables, fishing stuff, etc. I feel there are less buyers and a lot more lookers and dreamers every year. Boats still sell, but not the numbers that used to sell. Another thing is since the economic collapse, there really is very little new to see. Very few new models from manufacturers since then. A lot of manufacturers have even scaled back the number of boats they bring to the show. Technology hasn't really changed in the engine market, except some of the big outboards. There aren't the sales to allow many companies to dump a lot of money in R+D and tooling new stuff.

The same way a broker can have too many slips at a show, misjudgement.The market had been expanding, then there was a glut of money changing hands and yachts changing hands, now the market is down. Corrections don't happen instantly unless the market is extremely fluid, which the yacht market is not. It will take some shows not going off well or having difficulty finding brokers for shows to be canceled or downsized.

A lot of the comments in this thread are spot-on! With regard to more shows being a product of more demand; I believe Show Management is diversifying to other countries/venues for two reasons...

1) The demographic and growth of the new region can support it.
2) The demographic and wealth in current show regions has shifted.

The proof has been in show attendance over the past few years, which has been steadily declining (no matter what Show Management claims!). We've all seen it, but we are told otherwise. I've cited this for many years...

http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/g...-miami-boat-show;-collins-avenue-display.html

http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/boat-shows-yacht-watching/18375-2012-palm-beach-show.html

Here's an exert from a post I made in a previous thread...

And who can forget when Kaye made the "show go on" following Wilma's visit to Ft. Lauderdale, leaving a fragile infrastructure, displaced residents and a lot of disgruntled show vendors who were forced to display or lose their place at next year's show. YF was only 2 years old at the time (circa 2005), but over 400 people voted on the poll...

http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/popular-yacht-topics/3861-flibs-poll.html

Attendance was off by 30% that year, but Kaye lined his pockets on the backs of the industry, then sold FLIBS off to Zymbalist. Not too many tears fell when Kaye passed away.

Why is this a surprise to anyone? All I've been hearing over the past 6 years is that only the luxury market is selling, i.e. 70' +++ and multi-millions of dollars. It seems that builders are going for that "easy money" and ignoring the small boat market. Even FLIBS needs 30', 40', 50' and 60' to fill the space. That market, right or wrong, has been ignored for 6 years. That was the meat and potatoes of this industry. Now we'll find out how good it is living on just caviar & sushi.

As for whether the tail is wagging the dog with the number of shows, boat shows kept expending even when the market faultered. Some smart cookies did pay attention and spun off things like the trawler fest, but the big shows seemed to be blind to the business walking out the door.

IMHO this industry has always been driven by fads. When things are going good they never seem to prepare for the inevitable down-turn. They never seemed to figure out how to involve the female buyer, during the late 90's customer service seemed to go out the window. The attitude seemed to be 'Who cares if we tick off a customer. There's another one standing right behind him.' Today there's not, and everyone seems surprised that the customers they ignored for so long are no longer begging for their attention.

As for why the shows won't let the brokers out of their commitments, is that really a surprise?

Maybe what they need to do is simply make these mega-yacht shows and charge those sellers enough to make up for the lack of smaller boats, and smaller boat customers.

I agree. I think the future is in focused shows, such as Trawlerfest. Maybe SuperYacht Miami will validate this concept.

Different shows are for different purposes. FLIBS is really for creating interest, showing who you are and what you have. A show like Trawlerfest has more activity aimed toward selling you a boat. Go to the Houseboat Expo and they are serious about selling some houseboats.

The average local boat show in the local arena will have very few boats sold but lots of "Sold" signs put on boats.

Show Management companies were brilliant in how they built these businesses. Local Coliseums sat empty and soon there were boat shows, RV shows, Car Shows, Home and Garden shows, Business Expos. Now the genius is that even though it doesn't payback to attend, you can't afford not to. You're more noted sometimes for absence than presence. Local shows and others will start saying you're out of business or you're in financial trouble. Imagine a builder, say a Hargrave as an example, didn't show (They have one space). It wouldn't likely directly impact them but indirectly there would be rumors and stories.

Some very few builders have gotten bold and held their own private shows nearby right after the show.

For decades I've heard it said, the show management companies are getting too greedy with prices or number of shows and it would backfire, but that hasn't happened.

NYCAP, it's because there are no buyers for the 30'-60' market. Those people and that income bracket have all evaporated. The only ones buying in that segment are for a tender for a mega yacht. Down here, you can sit on the ICW on a beautiful Saturday or Sunday for 1/2 a day, it does not matter what time of year. You see a parade of boats under 30' with lots of people on them all chipping in, you see some 60' and over. BUT NOTHING in between 30-60' hardly. I mean nothing in that size range.

I agree that there is a distinct lack of quality yachts available on the used market unless you want to may silly money for an over priced "almost new" boat.

I run a 138ft motor yacht and earlier this year the vessels owner wanted to upgrade to a 160ft (isn) yacht. We scoured the USA market for something decent and no older than 2010. Other than 1 Christiansen we found nothing on the used market and eventually decided to refit and upgrade the existing yacht which is what we are now busy with. And by refitting the existing vessel he is saving millions and still ending up with an amazing the yacht that he will enjoy for many more years.

That would seem to me to benefit all but the show management companies. However, if they did it smart I could see it benefiting them as well.

If I actually went to FLIBS looking for a boat I'd be very frustrated. Something about having to wonder around through such a group. If I wanted a SF, then I wouldn't want to look at trawlers or motor yachts. Buyers are more focused than that. Even future buyers. The ones who are happy with the current situation are those just looking around for the pleasure of doing that. I'm not looking for a boat. I might enjoy seeing a glimpse of everything there. But not going to buy anything.

I think for many reasons. Fort Lauderdale is THE SHOW. This wasn't needed for the Superyacht show. Also the entire set up of the Miami shows is awkward and the traffic very bad. They keep trying things. For next year they're pushing Cruiserport. I have no idea if this year will be better organized or more difficult to enjoy. The appearance from the boats and water was that it wasn't well attended last year. But the appearance from the streets was that everyone in the state was there.

I think individual shows split apart at separate times and not duplicating 25 miles apart might be different. Superyacht might not be well attended then but might be more beneficial to those showing.

I don't like the Miami show for a lot of reasons. Getting boats in and out of the collins show really sucks, the bridge only opens once an hour for about 10 minutes. There isn't a lot of waiting room and everyone gets stacked up in there. Traffic is horrible and so is parking. Getting to the other shows from Collins takes an hour or so because of the traffic and the Collins location doesn't flow very well pedestrian-wise.

I have no idea why they don't work a deal out with the water-taxi to ferry people to the other locations like they do at FLIBS. It would make the show so much more productive and easier to get to.

Flib

One web site is showing 15,998 boats between 30 and 60 feet sold this year alone so it is not all doom and gloom.

Personally all three shows that I attend have been record setting this year for work generated directly from those shows. Back to the good old days of the early 2000's.

Why knock Kaye Pearson, how many on this site have benefited from him taking a small boat show to what it was when he sold it. Why knock Show Management when they have kept things going and are expanding, yes, they did not do themselves any favors when they forced the vendors to still attend after the hurricane but they have a business to run and the show went on.

Sorry to read that "olderboater" is frustrated having to walk amongst "that group", maybe Show Management could clear a path to give him VIP treatment so he does not have to rub shoulders with the masses.

Yes parking sucks but at what mass attended event does it not suck.

Yes getting boats into Collins sucks because of the bridge but at least you are being paid to sit and wait.

Yes there is a definite down turn in good used boats available but there is also the lack of buyers in certain size ranges so it balances out.

Not to sure about the Hargrave comment either, "they have one space" I thought they had at least 6 boats on the dock at the last show. All the rumors about Bertram but I think they had 2 or 3 boats at the last show, not sure where they came from but they were there.

I am sure there are many who can remember you could sit on the patio at Bradleys and look at all of the boats in the Palm Beach show and now look at it. My favorite show by the way.

I am on the water every day between Stuart and Miami and see many 30 to 60 footers, I wonder how so many people can take time off work during the week to do that. It is great to see all women out on their boats and more power to them

Yes, definitely a different world we live in these days but it is not all doom & gloom, there are still many thousands making a good living out of the business we love.

Personally, I do believe the internet is a great tool for the buyers and the way it will go and keep expanding. It's hard to believe that 24 years ago I was one of the first brokers to make a VHS tape and send it to a buyer.

I think it is great to see the tire kickers and dreamers at the shows, unless you were born with a silver spoon sticking out of your rear end who amongst us have not been in that position of looking at boats and dreaming that one day I might own one.

So the next time you are frustrated by having to walk with the masses think back to when you too were one of them and smile.

I look forward to FLIBS every year, I am a boater at heart and enjoy seeing what is new and great and picking up some new toys for myself and the yacht I run. I enjoy Miami for this reason as well, the convention center has all the great boating stuff you need, can't stand the Collins Ave. venue, time to change that.
I have been to several FLIBS with owners, some have bought a boat that they saw first at the show, some have looked to see what they like and don't like. As a professional I have never had a problem getting aboard to look at any boat, with or without owners in tow. The networking at FLIBS can not be beat!
I did find last years FLIBS very dissapointing though, nothing new, same old inventory and same old gear in the tents, I went away feeling very indifferent.
As to the original thread title, I would agree, the used market for good late model yachts is severly lacking, I have been searching for a good late model, 1-2 yrs old yacht in the 130-150 range and there is not much to show, certainly no spec boats being built and the newer ones have unrealistic prices on them. I guess the lack of new builds the last several years has taken it's toll on new inventory.
All that being said, I am looking forward to FLIBS again this year, the parties just keep getting better!