Pirates...

Hi,

As the US acts like the worlds policeman invited or not I guess some treaties ( agreements) with countries where you are operating is as close to PC as you are going to get.

Years ago a singer named Phil Oakes had a song called "Cops of the World". I think every US president should give it a good listen. Not that it was ever right, but these days we can no longer afford (politically or monetarily) to be the cops of the world.

"Why is this a US problem?"

Didn't say it was a problem, just referenced the fact that such treaties exist, there is a precedent for US to board foreign flag ships world-wide so asking Yemen to participate is not a big stretch and will reduce the risk of conducting what might be seen as unilateral action (not that it is not worth doing in this case since the pirates are not exactly operating under the protection of a flag in any case.)

Having military vessels running convoy escorts for yachts is amusing. Herding cats is not the military's function and protecting yachts specifically is really a PR joke of the moment action.

The bottom line is that part of the ocean around the Red Sea and Horn of Africa is a critical shipping area and the world's economy depends on the safe conduct of international trade. all countries with a stake in ocean trade have the right to free passage. To assure that right, those countries with the resources to keep that area free of interference have an obligation to eliminate any threat to free passage. It is really simple. Disarm the pirates or eliminate them.

I still say I like this simply strategy....and I might be willing to bet the two other big security members of the UN (China & Russia) would be willing to vote for this action. ....the Russians in particular, since I believe the pirates hold one of their vessels (with military weapons onboard)

Oops

Sunken 'pirate ship' was actually Thai trawler, owner says


BANGKOK, Thailand (CNN) -- Fourteen sailors are still missing from a Thai trawler that was sunk last week by the Indian navy as a suspected pirate ship, the vessel's owner said Tuesday.

One crewman was found alive after six days adrift in the Gulf of Aden, and one is confirmed dead, said Wicharn Sirichaiekawat, owner of the Ekawat Nava 5.

Last week, India's navy reported that the frigate INS Tabar had battled a pirate "mother vessel" in the gulf November 18, leaving the ship ablaze and likely sunk. Wicharn said that vessel was his ship, which was in the process of being seized by pirates when it came under fire.

Indian authorities insisted that their ship had acted against a pirate vessel which had threatened to attack the Tabar.

"We fired in self-defense and in response to firing upon our vessel. It was a pirate vessel in the international waters and its stance was aggressive," Commodore Nirad Sinha, a navy spokesman, told CNN. He said the ship the Tabar fired upon was laden with ammunition.

Wicharn told reporters that the Ekawat Nava 5 was headed from Oman to Yemen to deliver fishing equipment when it was set upon by pirates off the Horn of Africa. The pirates were seizing control of the ship when the Tabar moved in, he said.

Wicharn said he learned the fate of his vessel from a Cambodian crew member who survived the gunfire and drifted in the ocean for six days before he was plucked to safety by a passing ship. The sailor was recovering in a hospital in Yemen, he said.

Wicharn said his ship made a distress call on November 18 as it was chased by pirates in two speedboats, but the connection was lost midway. The owners, Sirichai Fisheries, had not heard from the crew since then.

Later that evening, the Indian navy said it encountered a suspected pirate "mother vessel," with two speedboats in tow, about 285 nautical miles (525 km) southwest of the Omani port of Salalah. "Mother vessels" are often used as mobile bases to ferry pirates and smaller attack boats into deep water.

When the Tabar's crew hailed the ship and demanded it stop for inspection, the pirates threatened to destroy the Indian ship, the ministry reported.

"Pirates were seen roaming on the upper deck of this vessel with guns and rocket-propelled grenade launchers. The vessel continued its threatening calls and subsequently fired upon INS Tabar," the ministry said. The Indian frigate returned fire, setting the pirate ship ablaze and setting off explosions on board, the statement said.

An international fleet has been patrolling the waters off the Horn of Africa in an effort to crack down on pirates based in largely lawless Somalia.

Pirates have attacked more than 90 vessels off East Africa so far this year, according to the International Maritime Bureau's Piracy Reporting Center, which monitors piracy around the world, including a Saudi supertanker captured earlier this month.

The latest ship seized was a Yemeni freighter Adina taken last week with a crew of seven on board, including two Yemenis, two Panamanians and three Somalis, security sources in Yemen told CNN.

The government is in direct contact with officials in Somalia to work on rescuing the ship, for which the hijackers are asking for a $2 million ransom.

While the pirate takeover of the Saudi super-tanker highlights the dangers facing cargo ships navigating the Horn of Africa, marine security experts are warning that racing boats, private charters and luxury yachts can be far easier pirate targets -- rich people usually carry cash, and jewels.

And competitors in the world's biggest ocean race made an unprecedented change of course this year as organizers mandated yachts steer clear of Africa's east coast.

Others did say it was a US problem: "As the US acts like the worlds policeman invited or not..."
I certainly don't expect a frigate to provide continuing protection to a couple of guys in sailboats. However private yachts should form their own convoys or join commercial convoys, even if there is no fire power involved, simply because there is safety in numbers.

Hi,

I am afraid that to believe that one you must have led a very sheltered life indeed.

Have you ever sailed in that part of the world or spent any time there?

Some of your recent statements make me ( and I am sure I am not alone) wonder if you just write things to see what responses you get.

Piracy Map

Live Piracy Map 2008

This map shows all the piracy and armed robbery incidents reported to the IMB Piracy Reporting Centre during 2008. If exact coordinates are not provided, estimated positions are shown based on information provided. Zoom-in and click on the pointers to view more information of an individual attack. Pointers may be superimposed on each other.


http://www.icc-ccs.org/index.php?option=com_fabrik&view=visualization&controller=visualization.googlemap&Itemid=89

Zoom in and take note of how many of the attacks take place near the Yemen shores.

Re: "OOPS"
So much for firing on suspect ships and leaving their crews to drown.

You don't believe that convoys might help and you believe the US should be the police for the area (Even after it now appears that the Indian navy signed on for a mess). What positive idea do you have or are you one of those who thinks the stew should carry a 50cal.?

Hi,

Convoys were used during the Second World War to great effect, there were huge losses of Merchantmen even when they were protected by armed Naval Vessels.

To suggest that these convoys would have made it at all without this armed escort is ludicrous and definitely indicates a loss of touch with reality.

Grouping unarmed and unprotected vessels east of the Gulf of Aden or in the Southern Red Sea prior to traveling through this area would just give the pirates a greater range of vessels to pick on- what would the rest of the convoy do if one or two couldn't keep up with engine problems etc?

And no I don't think the Stew should be carrying a .50" Machine Gun it's too heavy for my vision of a stewardess . The weapon itself should be mounted securely with a wide a field of fire as possible and the Stew along with others should be trained how to feed the ammo into it and how to operate it if they are the one standing behind it when required to use it.

The hired security idea is a good one if the logistics of getting them on and off at either end can be ironed out.

Many yachts transiting this area are now carrying security teams onboard.

"So much for firing on suspect ships and leaving their crews to drown."

I guess you didn't read the article. The suspicious vessel was towing two small craft. There were armed men on deck who opened fire on the Indian patrol vessel.

Do you now suggest that the Indians should have said, "Excuse me please sirs, but do you have any innocent persons onboard?" This is one of those really bad timing things. The distress message never made it out, the trawler was not reported as hijacked, and there were armed people firing on the patrol vessel. Ugly unfortunate things happen to innocent people when we do not stop evil when confronted with it. If we had started disarming pirates and destroying those who ran or opened fire just a few weeks ago this would not have happened. Do not blame the Indian Navy, blame the pirates and use this as an example of what happens when we do nothing to stop criminals.

I don't think anyone who is not very well trained and prepared to kill someone to protect themselves should be armed. I also know that those pirates are of another culture and have a view of the value of my life and yours that unless you have spent time in that area you could not possibly understand. They do not share your concern for the lives of innocent fishermen, they do not play by your rules and you probably cannot comprehend theirs.

"And no I don't think the Stew should be carrying a .50" Machine Gun it's too heavy for my vision of a stewardess . "
You've got a good sense of humor K1W1. No, convoys will not keep anyone safe, just improve the odds, I would hope. Plus this isn't exactly the WWII Germany navy.

No, No, No. You completely misunderstood my comment. I believe that the Indian navy did exactly the right thing. They did their job and they did it right. Despite that they've landed in a mess with the vessel's owner and possibly even his government or the families and governments of the crewmembers. My comment is that that is why the navys are hesitant to fire on suspected pirates...the fear of colateral damage.

Hi,

NYCAP- This is in direct contradiction of what you wrote in Post No 126.

Either read what you wrote earlier before each additional posting or just stop posting if you can't remember what your views were an hour ago and want to shift your ideas 180 Degs every couple of posts.

"However private yachts should form their own convoys ... simply because there is safety in numbers."

Which means that they will watch (which is all they can do) as one of their companions is devoured, or collectively provide a smorgasbord for the pirates to choose from.

A yacht convoy - or any unescorted convoy for that matter - is like a herd of wildebeasts, they will stampede at the sight of danger or watch as one of their fellows is being eaten. They are hardly likely to join together and attack the attackers en masse.

Not to mention that it takes more than 2 or 3 yachts to make a convoy ... now many do you figure are passing the Yemen coast at any given time? And, as soon as the pirates capture a nice white boat for their own use, no one will want to get anywhere near a yacht to make a convoy.

I honestly don't know what you're talking about unless you are taking:
"simply because there is safety in numbers. " to mean a guarantee of safety or "I certainly don't expect a frigate to provide continuing protection to a couple of guys in sailboats" to mean that I'm against the idea of the navys providing protection to yachts. If that's the case you're mistaken.

Probably true. The only cure is certainly in the hands of nations. I feel that a convoy could be considered more trouble to capture than individual boats. Foolproof? No. Just an idea that may be worth considering.

"I feel that a convoy could be considered more trouble to capture than individual boats."

They only need to capture one. A convoy of yachts without protection gives them a choice of which one they get.

A handful of large patrol vessels scattered around the region, each receiving intelligence from the amazing amount available through military sources, could eliminate the problem in weeks. No prisoners, no publicity, no refugees, just a few minor oil slicks and some floating debris through which a few disarmed former pirates will sail home to look for other employment.

+1......