Outer Reef vs Fleming vs Grand Banks

This is rubbish. you do not get a 11kwh motor, it is 11kw. For it to be 11kwh you would have to convert 15 hph. 11kw is the power of the motor, nothing to do with the runtime.

You will need glasses and re-read my post

I am very familiar with a Grand Banks 59 Aleutian.
Sailing the Atlantic Ocean and Mediterranean Sea.
She very seaworthy and is a ship for sure and NOT a boat.
Selenes are boats. Most of them have only one engine and therefore not seaworthy. No match for Grand Banks by far.

I’m very familiar with a Grand Banks 59 Aleutian.
Fine SHIP and for sure NOT a boat.
Cruised the Atlantic Ocean and the Mediterranean. Very seaworthy. Selene is nice but still a boat. Many of them only have just one engine. Far from seaworthy therefore,
Recommend to take also a Grand Banks in consideration if you think of buying a real ship.

A yacht is not a container ship. Like a Range Rover is not a truck.

My first reply did not seem to go through hence my second attempt.
Both are now posted. Apparently too overwhelming. Sorry for that.

Grand Banks a real ship? To be fair, neither is Outer Reef or Fleming. Like Mapism eluded to... real ships are made of steel and they run on one engine. Splinter, we respect owner opinions and varying perspectives are welcome, but inflated remarks don’t float around here. Keep it real, even if we’re not discussing ships.

Fleming 55 (or any other size) is not comparable to a displacement vessel if it is being viewed as a displacement boat, & vice versa. Horses for courses. Trans ocean voyaging, as opposed to simply being on the Med or Atlantic, would require displacement power or motor sail, or sail, unless traveling with a convoy & or extra fuel pods.
For that a single screw is called for with a wing engine.

As for the discussion regarding hydraulic stabilisers : I will not ever use them in a heavy following sea, as per bad experiences. Why the naval architects have not been considered in this argument is a mystery to me. Point being: take an older semi displacement hull design & now add the latest powered stabilsers (not para-vanes). The architects have not designed the hull form to manage these in a heavy sea. Anyone who has traversed same will tell you that the strain on the running gear & hull is audible & can be felt in the vessels performance. I have had a following sea run past the height of the pilothouse in an Offshore 58 & felt an enormous relief on both the boat's handling & my work load, once the fins were disengaged.

Interesting thread. Given that the Fleming 65 Voyager has routinely crossed oceans and the semi displacement Mikelson Nomad has gone non-stop from San Diego to Hawaii while countless Marlow, Fleming and other semi displacement boats have run 1,000+ miles would certainly contradict the notion that only single engined, full displacement hulls can cross oceans.

As for stabilizers, again the actual real world experiences of countless owners of both semi and full displacement hulls have had both positive and negative experiences with stabilizers. It really comes down to the hull design, the stabilizer itself, the installation and calibration.

As for the Fleming 55, the engine room is tight. Especially if one is over 6 foot. But that is the same with many Selene’s, Nordhavn’s, countless sportfish and many other “big” boats. In fact my biggest issue is that at my height, engine room access is a big priority. Crawling, especially in heavy seas is not something I’m interested in. That said, the lay out of the Fleming 55 engine room and its build construction are both top notch. It’s a design that works for many.

lots of great options available. Back to the original question - pick whichever works well. All three are very good options. I personally like Grand Banks and Fleming but for different reasons. And I’m going to take a Fleming for a ride this week in anticipation of making an offer. We originally wanted a sportfish but family wants a long range cruiser. It’s down to 4 options and Grand Banks and Fleming are both still in the list.

Good luck.

Should say Venture. Not Voyager. Auto correct and fat fingers!

Thanks for the post.

Had I owned a 65 Fleming & had all the necessary supplies & support of the company freely available to me or could write these off as promotional costs as I ventured North, South etc., as Tony Fleming has done, then there is no argument.
It is a case of practicality, costs & safety.

How often do you think a Fleming or Mikelson owner who has done the San Diego to Hawaii trip or similar, has had to make a run for shelter or re-scheduled their trip due to conditions that a displacement vessel would have had to endure? I can make a guess at “often” based just on my own cruising along the East Coast of Australia. Sure, my boat (twin Perkins Trawler style) would survive most, if not all the time, but my passengers & I would be hammered, not on bourbon either.

Your reply to my comment about stabilizers is actually my point.

Hull designs from William Crealock, De Fever, Monk & others, are not necessarily based on a stabilised hull at any speed & certainly not in a challenging sea. Would you swap out your cars shock absorbers for softer riding ones without considering safety issues?

As for the many thousands of sea miles that all these stabilised boats have done; maybe, but Boeing has used that argument on some of their designs too.
I could be very wrong here, but it just seems odd to not consider the naval architects intention on the hull design before drilling large holes into both sides under the waterline. Flopper Stoppers are different, they are not going to leave a void in the hull or break a fin onto the running gear.

One minor point here, many modern real ships run on multiple engines and screws these days. Cruise ships, ferriees, war ships (except subs), research ships, tugs, coastal tankers and container ships, etc all run multiple engines. About the only thing running single engine and screw these days are some large commercial container ships and some tankers.

I have a client who owns one of the commercial fishing trawlers featured on "Deadliest Catch." His personal yacht? A Cape Horn 52 with a single engine, no wing/get-home.