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Low shore power voltage

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by NYCAP123, Jul 2, 2013.

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  1. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    So over the past two months we've had our boat in 6 differnet marinas. In only one did I get 220V. The other 5 gave us 175V. And yes I verified our meter's accuracy. Anybody else noticing this or know what's going on? Is this what the utilities are now delivering? It was one thing when a pound of coffee became 12 ounces, but electric? I decided to do some laundry today and either my main breaker or the dock's pops every few minutes. I'm thinking that hot dogs over an open fire may be on the plan for dinner tonight.:mad:
  2. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Which mArinas ? Are we taking out of the way, small places in the boonies whe they rarely see a big boat or active east coast places? Have you talked to dock neighbors?

    Anything below 200v and I go to generator.
  3. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    How does $8 per foot per night sound? I'll PM you with the names, but Kudos to Canyon Club in Cape May. We got 220v there.
  4. Ormond Bert54

    Ormond Bert54 Senior Member

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    Browns at BoothBay Harbor Maine had 208V - They said the whole town had a max of 208V. I ran my generator because none of my 240 equipment (HVAC/Water Heater etc) would work.

    I'm at Bar Harbor today and my meter indicates 188V but AC and Water Heater are working. Am I doing damage to my equipment?
  5. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    I think your answer has already been written here. I also think that our appliances have a new shorter lifespan, and there's nothing to be done about it unless you want to generate your own electric. It appears to me that 175V is the new normal. Like the coffee makers determined that they'd lose customers if they raised their prices any more so they made a pound 12 ounces, so the utilities have determined that the public service commissions won't allow them the rate hikes they want so they'll just deliver 175V instead of 220V. Maybe we all just need to convert our boats and homes to low voltage lighting and appliances. That can't cost too much right?
  6. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    You could be. It shouldn't effect the water heater, but could definately burn out air conditioning compressors. It shouldn't effect the raw water pump for the a/c. I'd get a booster box.
  7. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    And you left Cape May?

    I'm afraid your the victim of everybody wants A/C, your at the end of the dock, budget designed the electrical system at the dock your at and your at the bottom of the scrodem pole.
    Unfortunately, the marina / docks believe the house is in there favor and there rite.
    $8 to $9 is the premium rate down here with Y transformers and no less than 208vac.

    I've also had to balance a dual 120vac boat service. Used 240vac service but NO 240vac equipment on board. Had all the A/C equipment (four and pump) on one 120vac line and the fridge, charger and rest of boat on the other 120vac line. I mover one of the A/C set to the other leg and the dock breaker stopped tripping.
    Do you have an unbalanced leg? Maybe a charger or ice maker you can turn off? Need that water heater?

    Or, as I have said before, keep shopping till you find a better built dock.

    U still hobbling around or skipping along yet?

    Good luck
  8. jhall767

    jhall767 Senior Member

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    When you only get the 175V instead of 220-240V but your two 120V legs are 110-120V it's not the power company. It's the marina not having the proper transformers. If you 120V outlets are putting out 90V then it is the power company / load on the system.

    On another note - Is there a website that rates the electric available at marinas? It certainly would make a difference for some cruisers to know that they can stay at marina A AND have air conditioning or marina B and not have it. Also might help to motivate those with poor power to correct it.
  9. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I had a totally different issue recently at the Hyatt in Savannah. Showed 236 volts on the panel, if I drew more than 35 amps off of a 50amp cord it would pop the breaker on the dock. Showed 60 hertz on the meter as well. Tried a different outlet, same deal. Tried a different pedestal, same deal. This went on for 2 days and I shut down several systems to keep us under 35 amps. Then a 100' Hargrave pulled in with 2-100amps..... that's when the real fun began. Popped the 100amp breaker....in the box next to the pedestal I plugged into was. We then reset it and realized they wired both the 100amp receptacle, and the lighthouse with 2-50amps off of the same 100 amp breaker. He moved his 100amp to another pedestal. Now we kept popping some breaker up at the hotel for the entire dock and had to keep getting the engineer out. Unbelievable, but I think their supply wires just weren't large enough or something. But we all showed 236 volts and 60 hertz on our panels.......Then went to Harbourtowne in Hilton Head, and Charleston City docks for the remaining 6 days and ran everything and never popped a breaker after that.
  10. jhall767

    jhall767 Senior Member

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    Was in Cape Charles (Kings Creek marina) over the weekend. Single 50 ~240V no problem. My buddy's 90' 100 Amp no problem. However two other 70-90'ers were both running their generators to supplement shore power. The marina did have an electrician working on the problem.
  11. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Rcraps, still hobbling. Just got yelled at by the doctor for putting on a shoe instead of the big boot. Oh well.

    I think the idea of some sort of website that rates the marina's electric is a wonderful idea. Sort of a hall of shame.

    When you get 6 out of 7 marinas showing the same low power 175V, and I've been at the start, middle and ends of the grids, I tend to think it's the utility companies. Also makes me think we need to start putting meters on our houses, because the same has to be going on there.
  12. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I haven't seen electrical issues your seeing with this much regularity, only once in a good while. But that area got a good storm surge from the Hurricane that hit NJ and NY. I would think more along the lines of a lot of damaged transformers that the marina's haven't fixed or replaced.
  13. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Active captain... You can comment on marinas service there for all to see
  14. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Two of the low voltage marinas were Philadelphia and on the C & D. Neither hit by Sandy, but both areas recently hit by a heat wave.
  15. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    The utility operates under an agreement with the State to provide power with a voltage that generally ranges between + or - 10 percent maximum and excursions are time limited.

    Check with the local utility or the State public utilities commission for details.

    The problems you are experiencing most likely originate on the marina side of the grid.
  16. jhall767

    jhall767 Senior Member

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    Yup.

    The problem is the way the power is delivered and used. The power coming from the "problem" marina's is a nominal 208V from 2 out of the 3 phase power coming to the marina. Right away this may cause a problem because the three phase is no longer balanced and may be severely unbalanced. On some boats it then goes through an isolation transformer which creates the new ground/neutral tap. This, in theory, will give you 208/104 in the boat. For whatever reason the isolation transformers in these boats don't do a good job of converting the 120 degree phase power to 180 degree power and you will typically lose 10% of the voltage. If you have a 3 wire 240V power cord this definitely applies to you.

    When the boat is connected to a proper transformer of 120/240V everything works fine.

    Since the isolation transformer is part of the ground protection for the boat you can't just bypass it. Some of them had a set of taps for boosting European voltage to US. In these boats it is possible to wire in a input source selector switch which will use the boost taps on one setting and the regular taps on the other setting.

    As NYC has found out this issue is something akin to black magic to most electricians. This is not a problem you have unless you are moving from power supply to power supply. When 240V single phase is needed they would simply install the correct transformer instead of using 2/3 of the 3 phase. It seems some of marinas just use the 208V/3ph supplied by the power company. Small problem without an isolation transformer. Bigger problem with one. I hope I've relayed this properly. I am not an electrician but I did get the information from a good friend who designs electrical systems for office buildings.
  17. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    During peak usage, such as during a heat wave in the NE, the utilities are given permission to cut back so the system doesn't get overloaded causing blackouts. Although I hadn't checked the voltage while at the Connecticut marina doing the refit, there didn't seem to be any problems. We hit the first problem as the May/June heat wave peaked.
    I have little doubt that many marinas neglect maintenance, especially of things like their electrical systems. I've seen it in marinas where I worked. But my suspicion is that the utilities never geared back up after the heatwave passed.
  18. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    This probably has a lot to do with the EPA and current administrations mandate to shutdown all of the coal power plants without planning on how to make up the electricity they were making first!!!!!!!!!!!
  19. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    No, this has to do with generating capacity (which is more than adequate in the N/E these days), avoiding blackouts, marina maintenance and profits by utility companies and marinas. Please don't bring politics into this discussion. It has nothing to do with the situation of why we're getting 175V at many marinas.
  20. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    That type of issue usually results in permission to reduce the voltage by 5%. In a serious problem such as loss of a distribution transformer that effects thousands of users, they may allow a reduction of 8%. This is not even noticed by most people.

    It sounds like the marinas have grown but they haven't upgraded or maintained their power systems.