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Low shore power voltage

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by NYCAP123, Jul 2, 2013.

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  1. saltysenior, Jul 22, 2013
    #121
    saltysenior

    saltysenior Senior Member

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    no voltage reading at the pedestal yet ????
  2. NYCAP123, Jul 22, 2013
    #122
    NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Yes, all resolved. We were not getting the advertised 208V from the pedestal, but something below 180V. With a voltage booster added onto the pedestal it's putting out 190V, exactly what our gauge reads. Without the booster the voltage is too low for our systems to operate. With it we're ok with minimal load. If we put on more load or the voltage drops again we have (2) voltage boosters on board, one for the a/c's and one for the galley. So the only things to suffer from a low voltage situation would be the TVs and some lights.
  3. Capt J, Jul 22, 2013
    #123
    Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Run the voltage boosters that are already on the boat, that is what they are there for. 190 is still way too low.
  4. Capt Ralph, Jul 22, 2013
    #124
    Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    There is going to be smoke somewhere. You just can not keep stepping up voltage without drawing more current. And you can not draw more current if there is not enough voltage. It's one or the other but you can not have both. Something will smoke. Then, you will find the bad connect or wire causing the problem.
    Go around with a IR gun and start shooting wires and boxes. Call in a real electrician before.......
  5. NYCAP123, Jul 22, 2013
    #125
    NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Fully intend to, but wasn't going to turn them on and then walk off the boat for a week. 190v is ok with the load we have on currently. We'll finally be taking her out for a shakedown cruise in a couple days, the voltage booster will be on when we dock, and I'll be there to monitor.
  6. NYCAP123, Jul 22, 2013
    #126
    NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    You must have misread something. The voltage problem is on the dock, not on the boat. Our meters are right on the money, and we have the technology to get what we need where we need it.
  7. Capt Ralph, Jul 22, 2013
    #127
    Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I said somewhere. Including the dock and your boat including before and in-between. You felt the temp of those boost transformers of yours under load?

    The Problem may well be on the dock. The results could be anywhere.

    I have moved mine and my customers off of docks with poor electric service. This stuff is just to expensive to risk. AND More, a life.
  8. NYCAP123, Jul 22, 2013
    #128
    NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Sometimes you just have to say "That's what insurance is for". I'm not going to worry that a dock which has never gone on fire is going to burn in the next two days. Since I'm running a minimal load I'd say there's a lot of other boats that have a lot more to worry about than me. I never sweat what I can't do anything about. I'm just glad that after nearly 2 months I'm able to walk again (or at least hobble). If this were my home marina it would be a different situation, but it's not.
  9. Beau, Jul 22, 2013
    #129
    Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    Indeed! I have been at a marina which for years could only deliver 208v, but that voltage was reliable. Last year we were lucky to get 190V. This also reflected on the 120v side. Customers were burning out compressors, refrigerators microwaves, everything. All my dock mates were complaining of a burned smell upon entering their boats. In response to near riot conditions, the owner installed step up transforms at the head of the dock - 240v is a wonderful thing. It's also amazing the effect it had on the 120v. For example, I did not reset my refrigerator after the upgrade and the next time I came back to the boat, everything in it was frozen! My oscillating fan that I previously ran on high, now runs on low very nicely. I know there are different configurations of wiring, and someone will educate me, but 190V might mean you're only getting 95 volts on the 120 side. Just another consideration and cause for concern?
  10. Capt Ralph, Jul 22, 2013
    #130
    Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I understand about hobbling. Glad were vertical.
    I'll keep my fingers crossed for you for two more days.
    ,rc
  11. jhall767, Jul 23, 2013
    #131
    jhall767

    jhall767 Senior Member

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    Never seen a voltage reading on the 120V side. If you are only running incandescent lighting it doesn't matter. Maybe its time to replace the fridge/icemaker anyway? Not sure what 90V would do to those new CFL bulbs though. They're pretty suspect to start with. I guess the dimmer capable ones would be okay.
  12. Beau, Jul 23, 2013
    #132
    Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    If your built in volt meter doesn't have a switch to read the 120 side, just use a handheld volt meter at one of the outlets. Low voltage, so I am told, generates a tremendous heat surcharge which brings on premature failure of items requiring 110v
  13. NYCAP123, Jul 23, 2013
    #133
    NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    I used to be under the same impression, but the answer really is 'It depends'. Low voltage will have no detrimental effects on most 110v items. They'll simply dim or run slower, and most appliances today will eventually just shut down by design if the voltage gets too low. Some items with motors and older appliances however are a different story.

    Low, High Voltage and Electronics
  14. Chasm, Jul 23, 2013
    #134
    Chasm

    Chasm Senior Member

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    Other than current there is one additional problem with boosting the voltage that much. What happens if the dockside fault gets fixed?
    And 180V instead of 240V is definitely a fault.

    Say you boost by 1/3 to get back to 240V, in the moment the fault is removed you have 320V. Your appliances won't like that, neither will your insurance company.
  15. Marmot, Jul 23, 2013
    #135
    Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Details, details, details ... not to worry, it's under control. Alles klar.
  16. HTMO9, Jul 23, 2013
    #136
    HTMO9

    HTMO9 Senior Member

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    As I mentioned before, I am not very fond of electrics. But I had this problem on earlier boats, I owned. When I finally got sick of this problem, my boats got equipped with a global shore power converter.

    This black box eats almost any voltage and frequency and converts it into the correct voltage and frequency for the boat. Plus it converts the 2, 3 or 4 wire shore systems into the correct setup onboard. These converters come in different sizes from below 6 KVA up to 500 KVA (for cruise ships :)) and can be ordered for US or European boats. I do not believe, that any new larger yacht is leaving the yard nowadays without one of those wizards. And meanwhile they are available for smaller boats too. The rest is a stupid adapter issue.

    With all those expensive non ohmic consumers on board modern boats, I would assure that the correct voltage, frequency and AC with a perfect sinus wave is available in the AC network of my boat at all times.

    Below is a link about shore power problems and setups from a Nordhavn specialist. It explains this problem quite nicely, even for an electrical ignorant like me.

    http://www.nordhavn.com/resources/tech/shore_power.php
  17. NYCAP123, Jul 23, 2013
    #137
    NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    That's one of the reasons I didn't boost while away from the boat (although the main reason is that the equipment hasn't been tested by me). However, the normal voltage for this marina is 208V. The booster brings it up about 10% (not 1/3). So even if they got it up to full capacity I'd be dealing with 229V. When marinas don't maintain themselves properly we're all at risk though, and there's not much we can do about it other than sit around all day staring at the meter.
  18. K1W1, Jul 23, 2013
    #138
    K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    Ed, You could always join the big boats and run your genset 24/7 and have no problems with the dock power ever again.
  19. NYCAP123, Jul 23, 2013
    #139
    NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    I did that at Chelsea when we had guest aboard for a party, but small boats dock so close together that neighbors tend to get upset. I know what you're thinking, and that's exactly my response when I need it and they don't like it.:D:cool:
  20. DOCKMASTER, Jul 25, 2013
    #140
    DOCKMASTER

    DOCKMASTER Senior Member

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    I have the same problem at my marina where the voltage is rated at 208v. When the slips all get full in the summer and some of the commercial boats have high loads it is not uncommon for the voltage to drop to around 204v. My marina would not allow a transformer on the dock. I have seperate, isolated shore inputs port and stbd. I installed a step-up transformer on the stbd side only and mounted it in the lazarette. This brings my voltage up to about 240v - 244v depending on incoming voltage. When I travel to another marina that already has 240v or 250v I just plug in to the port side and the transformer is not used.
    I don't know if this is an option for you. I can find the specs and transformer model if that would help. I think Charles also makes an automatic device that accepts multiple input voltages and adjusts output accordingly but I think the boost is limited to something like 13%.
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