License question?

See what I mean, there isn't anything Henning doesn't know and it took him all day to find the reg for you.

No, you haven't really, you asked others to do your homework for you. Your homework is done in the texts where the proper answers are found. I could tell you whatever, you would have done it, maybe gotten busted and lost your ticket and been fined. You look for any regulatory answers in the CFRs, not internet forums. If you think I'm bashing you, sorry, but with 2 years on a ticket and not knowing where to find definitive answers to simple regulatory questions, well, you've got a bit of bashing coming to you. Hopefully now the ability to answer these questions has been bashed into you. Other captains, or buddies, operators, internet groups or even the USCG isn't where the answers come from. The answers come from the CFRs and Federal Register. The CG is not always right when you ask a question and get an answer either. Often you have to pull out a CFR reference to defend yourself against them.

The question was indeed an intelligent one, the methodology you have used in finding the answer is most definitely not an intelligent one, in school they would call it cheating, and for that you get spanked.

The reason I get annoyed is because I'm supposed to assume you know your stuff. If you don't know this, what else don't you know because this question is dirt basics? It's pretty unprofessional and reduces the value of a USCG ticket, and I have to deal with that stereotype in the work place. Your lack of basic knowledge while holding that license devalues my license and every other persons USCG license, and many of us have worked ****ed hard doing our homework and knowing our stuff. I know I speak for a lot of USCG ticket holders when I say, "Buck up and learn your s-t properly."

Sigh..., you just don't get it. You have a deficiency issue with your general professional knowledge base. You also have a deficiency issue with your source of continuing education. Take this thread as a hint to fix it before you get in trouble or kill people. If you're going to work in the industry, pick it up.

A few years ago a pretty good fisherman retired. He'd let his license lapse and said he wouldn't stand a prayer of passing the current test. According to him, when he originally got his license the CG put down two blocks of wood shaped like boats and asked who has right of way. He knew little of the CFRs and I wouldn't want him running a 50m charter yacht, but he was a pretty good fisherman. His name was Frank Mundus. Capt. Ryan knows more about the CFRs today than he did yesterday and he learned it by asking on Yacht Forums. Hopefully he'll know even more tomorrow.

Hopefully he will remember to use them to answer his next question.

You don't speak for me. I don't care what profession one is in, you should treat others with respect! A Captain's license doesn't entitle anyone to treat his bother the way you have on this thread. If you did not want to help, you should have not responded.

In every profession there is a place for all types. Some pilots ride the space shuttle. Their level of knowledge needs to be far superior than does the pilot who flies a Piper. Can a captain of a megayacht fish as well as the day charter captain who runs to his honey holes every day? We need to have in our heads the knowledge we need to do our jobs. To be a professional we then need to know where to find the answers to whatever else we may need once in a blue moon. As much fun as it is to read the CFR's cover to cover, taking advantage of a room full of professionals is a lot easier.

Respect is earned not owed. Asking others to do your homework for you instead of doing your own is lazy and doesn't earn my respect. I owe civility, and I am being civil. I don't have a brother, and I'm not planning on adopting this one. This is a guy I may have to pass on a water way, I expect him to know his profession. I did help BTW, I educated him on exactly where to get the definitive answer to his query. You did not, no one else did. The cost of the education was a hit to his pride. Suck it up.

It's not about easy, it's about accuracy. He's been talking to professionals and they have been telling him the wrong answer. 5 people here gave him the correct answer, but he didn't want to hear that and posted he still didn't have a definitive answer.So much for that thought. It's about putting forth the mental effort to do ones job correctly. Is that so bleeding much to ask for? FMD, how sad. It takes a grand total of 10 minutes on the internet to find any CFR answer, if that's too much to ask for, I don't know what to say.

You were given the answer and came back with....

I tried to hint to you that you should know this since it was covered in your license test, or should have been hoping it would stir some though and think "Oh hey, yeah, I find this stuff in either CFR 33 or 46". That didn't happen.

I gave you the definitive answer and elusive resource to find it. Knowing where to find information is basic to the educational requirements of the license. I'm gonna go out on my psychic limb and guess you took some license prep where you go through computer banks of questions and learn the answers. Well, you passed your test without learning what you needed to learn if you did. If that's true, let this serve as your notice to get back at studying and actually learn the reasons for those answers and where to find them.

BTW, the USCG didn't answer the question because it's not their job! It's not their job to educate you, it's their job to license you. You are the one that is supposed to be bringing the knowledge to the table.

Before you hurt your arm trying to pat yourself on the back ... that useful document prepared by the charter vessel group listed the applicable CFRs. They didn't leave much out, and since one CFR always references another it is fairly safe to say that all the information he needed was either provided or referenced.

i'm trying to understand what part of "discussion forums" some of us here dont' seem to understand. A discussion forum is all about DISCUSSING things... ideas, situations, rules, whatever...

I'm a firm believer that there is no such thing as a stupid or ignorant question since in the discussion that follows something useful always come up.

I must say that my first reaction to Ryan's post was "this guy should know..." but then i figured that he may have been given wrong information by other folks and couldn't find the answer in the CFR. Let's face it, CFRs are not the most easy thing to read or search.

And we all know that there are things which may not be listed in the CFR but perfectly legal. Take Charter boats for instance (not fishing but the hundreds of charter yachts running day or term charters). If you read the CFR, a non inspected vessel can't carry more than 6 passengers yet most charter boats can take up to 12 passengers even though they are uninspected and often foreign built, using bareboat contracts (with a Master at the helm). uscg.mil doens't mention that option, nor does the CFRs at least not directly.

there are many other things out there that are not clear cut and can come up during a discussion, whcih is what a discussion forum is all about.

Moreover, insulting someone who post a "stupid" question does only one thing (besides revealing a lot about the person replying...). it only turns traffic and new members away from the site as lurkers or visitors will start thinking twice about asking a question.

I know..."i you cant' stand the heat, get out of the kitchen" but if you dont' like a dish, dont' eat it. move on to the next thread.

Pascal, I could not agree with you more! Well said.

This Forum is entitled "Licensing & Education." It would be nice if it were used by all for that purpose.

I remember there being a graduate school professor that would blast all that raised questions in a similar fashion to the way Henning has done here. Not much was ever learned in that class, other than what the professor said, and what a loss that was.

One other point, My definition of civil is different from that of some others on this forum!

I educated him not only on where to find the answer, but I also educated him on the fact that his knowledge base was below professional standards of his license and was leaving him open to liability. The second bit of education while possibly a hard pill to swallow, in the long run, is more valuable. Nothing I said is untrue or out of malice. BTW, I never bashed the question, I answered the question.

Perhaps you confuse "civil" with "kind"....

You think I'm insulting the guy but I'm not. I'm just telling him he needs to get his act together and get up to par with what professional standards are operating in this industry. That's not an insult, that's wake up call and a reality check.

No, looking things up in the CFRs is not pleasant, but it is part of the job which is why inspected boats have to have the CFRs onboard. When you need the answer, you should know where to go. Easy or not, it is how a professional gets the job done.

You did answer the question and very well, but you may have missed that he's a 6 packer. Nobody with your quals is going to do the work he's planning. He just doesn't want to overload his boat while taking tourists out to see dolphins and such. He's not a professional mariner, and I'd guess didn't go to Kings Point. Just a guy looking to live a dream I expect. Post 10 for example would have had the same value if it had stopped at "reasonable crew.". Everybody here strives for more knowledge, but we start from different points and take different paths. Some times it's hard to exercise patience and understanding. I can't think of a day when I didn't want to tap someone on the forehead and ask if anybody was home. No harm/No foul. His question was answered.

?

As a non captain who read the question when first asked and wondered "why the "captain" did not know that himself, I must agree with much of what Henning is saying.
It is a shame to see in many occupations that a license or certificate has lost value. No longer can we assume that someone who carries a title has a working knowledge of his task. People have become lazy and don't want to do the work to learn the job. Before reading this series of post I may have thought that getting the 6pack license may indicate a higher lever of knowledge that some guy just running a boat, but know I am not sure it is worth the time.

Just my thoughts,

A 6 pack license is someone who takes boating more seriously than Joe Sunday Boater, but it is the bottom license (save launch operator). A 6 packer doesn't have huge experience. Even in something as serious as the medical profession where your body and life are literally in their hands there are greats, quacks and everything in between.