Legacy on the Hard

Here is a nice link about the Legacy....http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/palmbeachpost/photos/accent/marooned/

what he could have done was either run south of the hurricane belt, run north out of reach, or take to the Med, it doesn't matter anymore though, what happened has happened, i'm going to be moving to South Florida before too long, and if i could, i would run south of the belt during the season.

Yup, that would have been the ultimate solution: Get the hell out of town before the season starts.
Especially if the boat is not designed or equipped to weather a storm.

As Wilma approached, with a fairly accurate path predicted by the National Hurricane Center, they could have ran East to the Islands.

Not sure what Legacy can do under power? 15 Knots or so?
300 NM in a day? 600 in 2 days?
Problem solved.

Hate to play Monday Morning Quarterback, but I hate even more to look at that beatiful boat sitting in the mud with nowhere to go because of ignorance..

And for those who did not see BrandonW's post to the Perini Navi website.. Here is it again... showing some interior and exterior shots of Legacy in Calmer wind and deeper water(before the incident)

http://www.perininavi.it/galleria.cfm?IdBarca=19#

Thats south of 10 N or Venezuela, Colombia, Panama.

Hi All,
Does any one have any update to the Legacy of Legacy???

Ever heard of hurricane Mitch? Look it up. I won't say that everything these guys did was perfect, but it was a big, resurgent hurricane. It came from the SOUTHWEST and the NHC kept predicting it would "get on the fast conveyor of the jet stream" and race northeast, but as a diminished Cat 1 or weak Cat 2 storm. My wife and I stayed at home in Key West, never considered evacuation, and had the Atlantic Ocean in our house at 4:00am, then the Gulf of Mexico made a visit at about 10:30am. As good as the NHC is, we still get surprised sometimes.

If you're going to blame his predicament on his poor judgement, then let's talk about decisions made by owners of the THOUSANDS of boats--commercial and private--along the Gulf coast that were destroyed or dropped inside Interstate 10. Oil rigs, as well. Let's talk about casino barges, or a coastal city sitting 15 feet below sea level. Relatively speaking, I don't see any arrogance or negligence in his decisions. I hope, if he's able to get repairs made, they resolve the issue with taking on so much water through vents in rough seas. That sounds like possible negligence on the part of the designer and/or builder, not the owner or captain.

Armchair quarterbacks and backseat drivers, I'd label a few in this thread. It's a semi-anonymous internet where perhaps all you've ever piloted is a nine-year-old Camaro with bald tires, but somehow you're "qualified" to berate the seasoned skipper of such a vessel. Who was the smug character in "Risky Business" who said, "I don't have to pay for it" and then went home to his video games while everyone else got laid?

This is a spectacular boat and I truly hope they're able to salvage it successfully. This hurricane, unbeknownst to many, did an awful lot of damage to already stressed corals in our area--damage that had nothing to do with boats aground or sunk. Legacy's situation looks fairly bad on the aerial photos but I congratulate the Sanctuary and Reef Relief for having the good sense to not fine Legacy's owner for being put aground by such a storm. Perhaps the reason no other boats went aground in the Sanctuary during Wilma is that Dennis, Katrina, and Rita had already sunk so many of them.

I wish them luck, though I do think they'll succeed.

BOOBERANDPUZZ ....
first of all, welcome to YF,

secondly, on your profile it saw that you are a diver and engineer, there are CAPTAINS on this thread discussing this incident, and what each would have done, yes it is a shame that the Captain of this magnificent vessel had the lack of common sense to avoid the hurricane belt during the season, especially when there is a hurricane, i have been sailing in close to hurricane conditions before, i know that it is not fun, please show some RESPECT (look it up) to those who have invested the time in earning the title of a captain.

Booberandpuzz:

Welcome and let me say, "Nice style".
Hope we here more from you.

Thanks. I recall answering questions as to my interests and profession. If I looked at your profile would I choose to buy you a drink or ask that you be shown the door? Personally, I wouldn't bother ... it's the INTERNET (look it up), a.k.a. Pretend World, a.k.a No Qualification Req'd to express an opinion or throw rocks. In this environment, you have only to evaluate someone's opinion on its merits and supporting arguments. But if I'm a CAPTAIN--and I've met some pimply-faced morons with the title--I'm qualified to defend or slam these guys, right?

We had a look at the Legacy today, thinking the salvage operation might have started already, but found otherwise. We're hoping they succeed if for no other reason than that this is a lousy situation for anyone to be in. Never mind the guy has money; it's a lousy situation. He has not done like so many other billionaires do: pay someone to fix it. He is here, engaged, and has his "hands on" the situation. He's in love with this boat and what it represents in his life and I can simply relate to that. My boat is just a lot smaller.

Speaking to the CAPTAINS on this thread, the only thing I wonder about is the decision to lay to on the "bay side" of the Keys. This worked great for Dennis, Katrina, and Rita, all storms that tracked along the Florida Strait side. Wilma was forecasted to track along the bay (Gulf) side, so I think I might have chosen a different spot if I planned to anchor out. It's so easy to say that now ... but can I even pose that question that as an engineer or diver? I even pilot my own boat out in the actual ocean when I want to go diving.

Picture shot 2/23/2007. Hope it uploads (my first attempt at this and apologies if it fails).

P.S.: I'm sure they're tired of it by now, but we were shown a very good reason to keep our distance.

Did you read the Vanity Fair article?

Good and sound judgement all the way?

Legacy

Gentlemen. Just a couple of thoughts.
Hindsight is 20/20, but only if you have all the facts. Unlike aviation incident reports performed by the NTSB, I don't believe that anyone other than the insurance company, and those present at the time have all the facts. If there were faults of omission or commission by the crew, the owner, the designers or the builders the insurance company will do whatever they can to prove it and reduce their payout. If those suits occur or are even considered is again something that will not be public.
Whether or not you are a fan of Pete Halmos is entirely irrelevant to this.
I think that most of us would expect to have taken what we say at face value and should accord the same to those involved.
There was a huge amount of damage during that storm and I would believe that most people did whatever they thought best at the time to protect their property.
It's tragic that this beautiful vessel has suffered the damage that it has and has ended up in this situation.
Now it's just a fascinating engineering project to get the hull out of there without causing further environmental damage.

I did. For one, Vanity Fair is not National Geographic. Though they both occasionally include sensational pictures of naked people, I think their editorial objectives and standards are somewhat different. Frankly, I actually have a bit more respect for the guy for not sugar-coating his behavior just because some journalist was with him. If you look beneath the facade of our media-soaked world, my guess is that most of us would find genuine sympathies with those that don't play the PR game and not so much with the pretenders that do.

RELATIVELY SPEAKING ... I don't see negligence. That's just my humble opinion. I wasn't there, don't know the boat, the precise circumstances, or sequence of events, and neither do any of the detractors offering judgements here. If this discussion is about educating ourselves to not repeat such mistakes in judgement, then such a debate can be a good thing.

I really hope these guys find a way to save Legacy.

So you agree there was a dose of poor judgement involved?

Then you don't think he should be blamed for poor judgement?

Whatever, but the result and the outcome speaks loud and clear in my humble opinion.

Yes, I agree we should dig deep into this "accident" to learn from it:

I noted on some pictures with the masts still standing that the radar dome was still in place. I sure would like to know what brand the radar was, as it could indeed be labeled "hurricane proof".

On the other hand, I would shy away from the type, or "brand" anchors that came apart when most needed.
The anchors was the last line of defence and they could have saved the day if properly designed, constructed, sized and set. (Lots of IFs here, but nevertheless, the weakest link in the chain, etc.)

Wonder if she may be beyond saving?
It may cost as much to fix her up as to build a new one as the damage could be pretty deep.

Perhaps time to cut her up and barge the pieces away?

I agree that you are dogged in your determination to BLAME these guys, which is fine. But you seem just as determined to convince others to do so as well. I'll invite you to keep your negative viewpoint, but I'm content to keep mine.

The owner has done some cost analysis that's been published and he thinks it's worthwhile. I have nothing on which to base a contradictory view. It looks bad on the outside, but that's all cosmetic--fairing compound stripped away and paint scratched up. Structurally she's intact (but for the rigging) and the interiors are spectacular. I'd try everything to save her if she were mine. I still hope the salvage effort works, but nothing has gotten underway as yet.

I am curious to know what might have happened if he docked the boat. What happened to the other boats at that marina where he refused to dock?

I wonder what happened to Legacy, wasn't the work supposed to start a while back? Does anyone have any info?

Sorry I am late responding, been out of the country for 34 days and not paid any attention to the bulletin boards.

Nah, not BLAMING anybody, rather asking pointed questions.
Based on the information available, it SEEMS poor judgment can have been a factor.
I am neither the NTSB or the US Coast Guard and not my job to find probable cause.

That being said, a healthy discussion on hurricane techniques and proper equipment based on actual events is not a bad thing, especially for guys that live the same area and are facing similar hurricane strikes every year.

As for "I'll invite you to keep your negative viewpoint, "

Forums like this is for sharing positive, negative and neutral viewpoints under certain guidelines.
If you think I am out of line, feel free to contact the site administration and I am sure they will clean up my negative postings if indeed out of line.

In the meantime I don't need your permission to question the design or the quality of anchors of the vessel, or the decision to stay in the path of the 'cane.

Again, I am stopping short of laying the blame or stating the cause of the accident, but I sure as hell would like to know how this could have happened and the decision- making process involved.

And finally, I hope there is a happy ending to this and I am really curious how to salvage Legacy given her present state and position.

Hi,

Good reply Norseman.

It is well balanced and clearly stated.