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Keels....a necessity or option???

Discussion in 'General Trawler Discussion' started by Fish Catcher Jim, Oct 12, 2014.

  1. Fish Catcher Jim

    Fish Catcher Jim Member

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    Well I thought I would move on to another topic I am trying to figure out. I thought since you folks all have so much experience with these types of boats I would pick your brains a little and get a better understanding to the realality of the keel vs open shaft. I have been told a lot that it is more of a preference then need but for some reason that just does not settler things in me.

    I like the idea of shaft and prop protection and I imagine that a good keel can benifit in other ways such as stability and handling both underway and moored.

    Now then I have found so many wonderful boats which were liked very much but end up having two long open or exposed shafts and that makes me wonder a bit. I mean perhaps always being in deep open water it would not matter much but cruising and bays and canals etc.

    Any way.......ready to listen so educate me on keels please. Chuckle
    Jim
  2. NEO56

    NEO56 Member

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    Hi Jim, I think keels are a good idea, I'd prefer that my keels hit bottom or coral heads instead of the props or shaft. There was a company called Cape Horn who made steel trawlers with bilge keels that not only provided stability, in roll dampening, but were lower than the prop tips, and the shafts. I don't know of any companies who employ bilge keels any more. ( I could be wrong and usually am). There are several production boats who have a full length keel, but based on your previous threads, and according to olderboater and others, keels are pretty much towards the bottom of your list in finding the "perfect" boat for you. If you can find what you need or want in terms of power, living space, redundant systems, etc. and still find a boat with a keel, more power to you. Just know that everything marine wise is a trade off. Nobody has EVER designed or built the perfect boat. Perfection is not attainable when it comes to boats. Having said that, while keels provide an increase in sea keeping ability, they can throw a monkey wrench slow speed handling, currents, wind, and other factors will impede the handling of a keeled boat vs. non keeled boat. And depending on the Sea state, a keel would help in inducing the "pitch pole" effect, where the boat wants to switch ends going down the back of a wave either up or following sea. Having a keel is not a deal breaker.
  3. Fish Catcher Jim

    Fish Catcher Jim Member

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    Hi NEO56,
    I agree about keels. In my thinking, I would rather have them especially when going into a lot of new area's. The other day a guy had pulled into the local lowes store with this beautiful CC. As I was admiring the boat I quickly noticed the prop. All blades were torn up more then I have seen and chunks gone and several had the entire ends, about a quarterof an inch worth bent over. I mean it looked like he had been running it in a gravel pit.

    I noticed all the tugs we have looked at had nice keels and protected running gear and some trawlers as well. You said having a keel is not a deal breaker and I am wondering if not having one should be a deal breaker.
    Thanks for the input and have a great week end
    Jim
  4. NEO56

    NEO56 Member

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    Shamrock used to make an inboard center console with a tunnel which protected both the prop and running gear. It was a single engine...but a nice design.
  5. Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

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    The semi-displacement boats I used to build had a strong keel, they were based on Pilot Boats and the need to track true is needed when loading a Pilot onboard a ship at sea while moving.

    That said, a SF need to be slippery to move it's ass on to a catch, all on the props and power. It all depends and the use of the boat.

    [​IMG]
  6. Fish Catcher Jim

    Fish Catcher Jim Member

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    Yup, I did like those shamrocks.
  7. Fish Catcher Jim

    Fish Catcher Jim Member

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  8. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Could your plans involve a Kort Nozzle?
  9. Fish Catcher Jim

    Fish Catcher Jim Member

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    Hmmm up until a minute ago I had not ever heard of one, hower a quick google and I have some reading to do tomorrow. Looks interesting and thank you rcrapps for heading me in this direction.
    Have a great day
    Jim
  10. Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

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    If this system works, look at these samples.
    Just found out how to post a photo, no it's a file now.

    Attached Files:

  11. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    A keel is dependant on hull design and speed. Slower boats generally use keels for stability, however they can sometimes provide negatively handling characteristics in a following sea. The faster the boat, you generally don't see keels as they're counter productive.

    As for coral heads. If you navigate properly they should never be an issue because you shouldn't be in an area where the depth is less than your draft and several feet of water in between.
  12. Fish Catcher Jim

    Fish Catcher Jim Member

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    I do agree with that statement however from what I understand through reading stories of traveling the icw that you are not ever sure what the depth is going to be. I had a hard time with reading about all the run agrounds via the canals and such with all the comercial ships running them but hey, I am not there yet.

    Then again it's like buying a new aluminum fishing boat and being afraid your gonna scratch or dent it to the point you are a never at peace.....You might as well get over it because its not if it happens but when it happens cause it will. And I might add it is not always your fault either. Not that I have any idea about such things as this. :rolleyes:
  13. Fish Catcher Jim

    Fish Catcher Jim Member

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    This all makes a lot of sense to me. So I see that having a keel that protects my running gear (shaft and prop) should not be a deal breaker.
    I tend to be glued to my depth finder when in a new area and I try to always give myself no less then a foot of extra distance.

    Thank You again for sharring your experience and wisdom with me.
    Have a great week
    Jim
  14. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    While I've been told running aground is inevitable and been lucky enough not to experience it yet, there are also steps to minimize the likelihood and minimize any damage. Use all the available resources including several sites on line such as cruisersnet that update notices and alerts regularly. Also, avail yourself of local knowledge through other boaters, marinas and, perhaps the best source, tow captains. They have the latest.

    Also, take potential trouble areas carefully. There is a huge difference between a soft grounding and a hard one. And then I recommend membership with one of the tow companies, either Towboat US or Sea Tow. And if you run aground do take steps to minimize any further damage but do not panic and make things worse. Sometimes it's even just a matter of waiting for high tide.

    You'll also learn to read the areas of greatest risk, both visually and through your instruments and you'll study the area you're going to cover before going there.
  15. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Don't get glued to your depth finder. It tells you what's under you, not what's ahead (too late to do much). Learn to read the waters. Look for the changes in color and tecture. If you're in good water in the crinkel stay away from the glass and visa/versa. An extended keel is wondeful protection, but it's not a cure-all nor will you generally find it on many boats. You'll generally find it on slower boats. If you're running around 36" draft you'll be pretty good in most places. Some boats have tunneled prop pockets to add efficiency and reduce draft. Once you get near 5' draft a keel is nice. It also adds stability.
    Sand bottoms tend to give you warnings. Color, texture, and also the bottom tends to rise gradually, so you'll generally see it coming like a countdown on your depth finder. But many place you'll travel up north and out west have rocks. They'll show up with no warning on your depth finder. They can also slide right alongside your keel and straight to your running gear or stabilizers (if you have them). That's why your best protection against grounding is your eyes looking at the water, and keeping track of your position on the charts.
  16. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

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    I dunno
    Don't forget to check the local Tide Chart. o_O :D
  17. Fish Catcher Jim

    Fish Catcher Jim Member

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    Olderboater thank you again,
    I only ran aground once in my 40 or so years of boating and that was kind of expected before we even headed in but then that was with a big deep v and motors up.

    I really had no real concerns about it until I began reading stories of those doing the loop and all those pictures. Sheesh made me wonder why so many would choose to travel the loop but then again I think about the comercial vessels that pay to run the icw and it boggles the mind to as why so many rec boaters go aground.

    I like your idea about the sea tow, kind of like triple A for boaters.
  18. Fish Catcher Jim

    Fish Catcher Jim Member

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    NYCAP123,
    How truthful all that is. I learned along time ago to read the water. During my times of quiding I have seen some of the most hiddious situations arise and should have never happened. Like a stump out off a point and that little area is the only area that has crashing waves......and you would not beleive how many people run thier boats over it or ski onto it etc.

    Thank You Again
    Jim
  19. Fish Catcher Jim

    Fish Catcher Jim Member

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    They make those? ;)
  20. Opcn

    Opcn Senior Member

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    Any extra appendage you add under the water is going to have costs to go with the benefits. In some boats a keel is really nice, helping you keep your footing as it were and providing some protection. However a keel in the center (aside from having the benefits and drawbacks mentioned) will not protect your props with great efficacy if they are on the side and you encounter an obstacle that doesn't hit you symmetrically dead on, waterlogged wood is great for finding its way under one side of a boat. If you put on more complete protection in the form of a couple of skegs (or a single prop in the center behind the keel) your props aren't going to be biting clean water, which means more vibration, more noise, less efficiency, and more wear. Having some protection for your props is nice, but nothing is foolproof, and everything has its own costs.