Industry Markups

Excellent practice. Easy and simple to just text a photo of "here is what we discovered." Great to have a GoPro of one's own to check your bottom, especially see what your divers are doing. There have been many cases where people had their boats hauled only to find out the 15 bottom cleanings they had paid for over the past year hadn't been done well at all and the anodes that were supposedly being replaced monthly looked like they hadn't been for years.

Excellent way of doing things. In fact that's what we were just promised from the yard where we plan to lay up and have our blister work done. What drives me nuts is that we have a fairly serious security system on this boat. We let the yards know that they'll be on camera while on board and we'll be notified of when they come and go. Yet they still ignore the jobs until you're ready to pull the work. One of the first things I learned when I started working as a kid was that, even if you have nothing to do, make sure you at least look busy when the boss is watching.

I guess you don't agree with this then ??

No, I don't. In fact for a broker collecting a fee for referring a surveyor would be a serious conflict of interest. In only a couple of states are brokers regulated but even in the others it could cause lots of trouble.

The recommendation of a surveyor is one very controversial area even when no fee paid for it. There have many times been accusations that brokers recommended surveyors they knew would be favorable toward completing a sale. Many advise purchasers to find their own surveyor. At any rate, the thought that a broker had a financial incentive in the referral would be very bad.

Brokers may also do many other things that don't pay. Refer to an insurer. Help find a captain. Connect the buyer with a shipyard or help find a marina slip.

When a broker is part of a large company that provides other services such as crew placement, then the broker does need to make the relationship very clear and should disclose that they receive compensation for it. Same thing with those firms that also provide yacht management.

Brokers in Florida and California are required to have licenses, pass background checks, and maintain surety bonds.

He can walk the buyer's dog if he needs money that bad. The man who sells his integrity makes a very bad bargain (or becomes a politician).

The way I have seen very successful and long time established Yacht Brokers recommend a surveyor, is that they gave a buyer a list of about 5 surveyors they approve of and tell the buyer to pick the best one they feel comfortable with.

Growing-up in the Islands, there was only one Surveyor for classic and wooden boats around, my Dad. In the Islands, there was only one true classic and wooden boat Broker, my Aunt.

It may sound like a neat and cosy relationship, but that's very far from the truth. As a Fellow of the Royal Institute of Naval Architects, he pulled no punches. What he says is what he says. Any buyer looking at classics wants to know the truth, not some Salesman's flim-flam. My Aunt used steer some buyers away from certain boats as they just weren't up to the task of ownership.

The answer is to find a good Broker you trust and have them give you options, but they may sway you in the correct direction.

That sounds like the old game for getting around the bareboat charter regs. I wouldn't care if a broker gave me 20 names. That would be 20 surveyors I wouldn't use and I'd have doubts about the broker. Get the name of a surveyor from a buyer's broker, a captain, a yard with no interest in the sale, someone who had their boat surveyed, but not the selling broker. I also wouldn't ask a blackjack dealer if I should take another card.

Capt J wrote:

So exactly how is that a "game" for getting around the bareboat charter regs?

The USCG wrote:

"The owner has an interest in the competency of the master. To this end, the owner may provide the charterer with a list of masters ..."

" ... a master or crew may be furnished by the owner ...".

"The master and crew are paid by the charterer."

Reference the USCG Marine Safety Manual Volume II

Those clauses are a fundamental part of the regulations that govern operation of a recreational a vessel - as any competent Son of Magellan* should know. That knowledge is just as much a part of exercising the privileges of a license as having a passing knowledge of the COLREGS.

*A licensed master hired to operate a vessel

That was a simple analogy as was the blackjack dealer, not what this thread is about. If you'd like to discuss either I suggest starting a new thread. A buyer's interests are best served if a surveyor has no conflict of interest.

Oh, I'm sorry, must have misunderstood you. You compared the surveyor thing to the "old game for getting around the bareboat charter regs" and since you put it on the table I thought it was fair to comment.

There isn't much to discuss is there? The rules are what they are. I just thought I would let you know before some other reader got the impression that providing a list was illegal or unethical or was some kind of "game."

And since you responded to the surveyor thing, maybe in the area where the boat is located there might only be 5 surveyors or 3, or maybe even 20. A list of surveyors with experience on the type or make of boat is a pretty good idea. The buyer has a right to fly someone in from another region if he wants, a list is only that, a list, it is not a scam.

An owner's interests are best served if the master operates within the applicable regulations rather than personal misconceptions and prejudices.

There is nothing at all wrong with providing a list of surveyors. This isn't a referral, just a list. Surveyors in the area who survey that type boat. Unless you think the broker is running a scam with them all which is highly unlikely. In fact the list is the way to make it clear. On surveyor only provided I would be very wary.

We got our surveyor in the PNW through several sources. We got a list of surveyors in their size and class, and glass from the builder. All were surveyors they personally did no business with and had no relationship with. We had already looked at their association, websites and any reviews. And we walked around the docks a bit. Also called other surveyors who I didn't think did our type boat and asked them, they gave great information. We then had a personal interview of the surveyor and our captains worked with him that afternoon. We hired him.

Our surveyor in Florida was one our captains knew well.

I was talking about the buyer's broker. BUT, well established and good yacht brokers are typically reputable and would only recommend good surveyors as it benefits them in the long run anyways whether they are the selling or buying broker. Just like it benefits a selling broker to have their sellers maintain their vessels properly because they have less hurdles and issues to overcome to sell the boat (price adjustments, buyers turning the vessel down after survey and wasting their time).

As for the bareboat charter boat owner recommending Captain's they trust. If I was one I certaintly wouldn't want 75% of the Captain's out there running and tearing my boat up because they're incompetant.

Anyways, the vessel you're running should cruise at 18 knots with 8v92's or real close to it. Being overpropped is detrimental to the engines at every RPM. Even what you're running at, because they're seeing elevated load factors throughout the rpm range. I would recommend having the motors checked out to make sure they're making the proper power (you might have bad turbo's, low cylinders, bad injectors, or simply need tune-ups (valves and injectors adjusted). If that's ok I would certaintly have the props cut to achieve top rated rpm's or those 8v92's will live a very shortened lifespan.........

BTW, this thread is on Industry markups. Not recommending a surveyor and the merits of that. Although I see nothing wrong with a broker providing a list of 5 surveyors they recommend and the buyer choosing from that list or hiring one from elsewhere, if you only recommend 1 then that's a problem unless it's a special case of the boat is unique like a classic Trumphy and there is 1 surveyor that is an expert on classic wooden boats and trumphy's.