Click for Delta Click for Glendinning Click for Burger Click for YF Listing Service Click for Westport

In the market for a 23m-26m

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Hiper, Feb 21, 2009.

You need to be registered and signed in to view this content.
  1. CODOG

    CODOG Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2007
    Messages:
    397
    Location:
    Bournemouth, southern England
    More and more potential clients are requesting floor area and headroom figures from the yards well before final shortlisting. Difficult to gauge from GA's and photos.

    Crew cabin space may not be a major consideration off the bat for you, but if you can get it free, and the guest / owner living spaces are suitable, good crew accomm is a great bonus come re-sale. In the meantime it's also an area for all the gear that wont fit in the 'voluminous and generous' stowage lockers that designers provide :)
  2. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,427
    Location:
    My Office
    Hi,

    You are not talking about Yacht Interior Designers here are you?

    Whilst most might have an understanding of the Oxford English Dictionary definition of those two words, something breaks down on the way from brain to pencil. Why would any self respecting interior designer give up a single square metre of floor space where there could be a feature in the carpet, exotic wall finish., a decorative column.... the list goes on, in favour of something hidden behind a door no matter how ornate that door might be?
  3. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,208
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Hiper's comment are exactly why I see the world moving away from the "European " style. and toward something more F/B, trawler or mix. As fuel prices soar and people realize that most of their trips are either very short or very long they'll be less impressed with speed (and the breakage that accompanies it) and more inclined toward comfort and economy. Not wanting to totally give up speed though they'll demand new, hybrid designs such as what's happening to bow shapes. When my boss was shopping for the 50 Viking SC, as some owners were touting that they had the big motors, we went for the smaller because you could move in the engine room and we burned much less fuel while only giving up a few knots. But I'm a little off topic here.:eek: The point being: comfort and space are more important than glitz and speed. And never buy a boat sight unseen. Personally, I always prefer pre-owned as the first owner gets to fix the gremlins and pay the big mark-up.
  4. CODOG

    CODOG Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2007
    Messages:
    397
    Location:
    Bournemouth, southern England
    :) Actually, no. Whilst I enjoy a daily engagement of light-hearted battle between the 'inferior decorators/ interior desecrators' (or my favorite, 'the cupboard drawers') vs 'the simplistic stylistics', I was taking an introspective swipe at the design of deck lockers / fender and rope stowage and the like. Interior designers may wear pink shirts and no shoes, and be responsible for global warming, the credit crunch and Newcastle United's dismal season, but the exterior designers have a lot to answer for too...even though the interior guys steal most of the available space when we aren't looking.
  5. goplay

    goplay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2006
    Messages:
    169
    Location:
    Sausalito, CA
    Lack of rub rails may seem trivial.. and in some ways it is since you can add them later. It would be in the category of "what the heck was the builder thinking". By itself, not a deal breaker. But in conjunction with other little "usability" issues, it all adds up.

    The rub rail is not about protecting against hitting another boat behind you (you'd get their anchor hitting you first anyways). It is to protect against rubbing against the dock and pilings. Ferrettis and Pershings are constantly having repairs done to their fiberglass sponsons because of the lack of rub rails.

    Since we anchor out most of the time we are on our boat, I wouldn't get a boat without zero speed stabilizers, ARG, fins or a passive arrangement. I like the self contained aspect of the ARGs (and the other US manufacturer whose name I can't recall). The problem is the space they take up in the engine room, particularly on the 830 and their tremendous weight. Fins are available on most motoryachts in the range you are looking at.
  6. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,208
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    I have to agree about the importance of swim platfor rubrails, mostly to protect against abrasion from dinks and toys (None will do much when 50,000 lbs. powers in.) I have found though that they are seldom in the spots you need them most. Since they are so easy to install after market I'd just as well prefer the space blank and add my own but add them I would.
  7. goplay

    goplay Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2006
    Messages:
    169
    Location:
    Sausalito, CA
    I agree with this but with the revision that trawlers will get less ugly and have a more modern "European" look. Ferretti's Navetta would be a good example of what I think we will start seeing more of.
  8. Hiper

    Hiper New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Messages:
    64
    Location:
    Middle East
    The Navetta line in my opinion is great! Ferretti have done a great job with both the 26m and the new 33m.
  9. Windswept

    Windswept New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    Onboard
    Has anyone had experience with the Princess on his list? Although I have never been aboard this model I have heard from some captain friends that Princess builds a decent boat.

    Can anyone corroborate?
  10. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,208
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    For the past 2 years I've been captain & manager for a 50 Viking Sport Cruiser which is the American version of a Princess and in November brought it down to Ft. Lauderdale. Everything about the boat was 1st rate. She's not glitzy, but classy if you know what I mean. I've had her in 6' real angry seas, taken a real angry 9' plus wave under the quarter, run 7' & 8' stormy seas (25 kt winds) and she handled it all rather well. Most of those situations did make me happy to have the lower helm station though. They have a couple of things that you have to get familiar with like water lift mufflers, but nothing that's a big deal. The windshield glazing does seem to go after about 5 years. No leaks, just the black seems to run off. They track well, handle well, are fuel efficient (we burned about 33gph with the small Volvos). No rattles after 6 years although I did have to add a 3rd clip to the electronics hatch in the VIP behind the lower helm. Bottom line, I like them.
  11. Hiper

    Hiper New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Messages:
    64
    Location:
    Middle East
    As NYCAP said, Princess build exceptional boats. I've been on their 54 and 62footers, and they are great! Excellent fit and finish, though I have yet to see any of their larger boats. One of the main reasons I was a bit hesitant with the Princess was that they didn't really have a good distributor in the region, but it looks like they're trying to gain some market share, though they're concentrating on the 45-60 foot range.

    I'm planning on visiting their shipyard within the next couple of months, so hopefully I'll get to see the 85 in person.
  12. nilo

    nilo Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2005
    Messages:
    681
    Location:
    Istanbul
    Navetta 33

    Actually Navetta 33 is not a new boat, but an elongated version of 30, which as initially designed as a 28 meter boat and has been elongated to 30 meters. The only advantage during the process was the volume added to the garage at the back. Even the aft deck has not benefitted from this additional length in terms of usable space.
  13. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,208
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Hiper, the support network is exactly why we did choose the VSC (Princess). Once they went with Viking it put a huge inventory and service network within a day's run or a mechanics drive. I've mentioned the importance of this in other threads. Lots of people build nice boats. Can and do they stand behind them should be the tipping factor whatever your choice.
  14. MaxPower

    MaxPower Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2008
    Messages:
    427
    Location:
    At Sea ... Aahhh ...
    Hi Hiper,

    I did a similar exercise about a year ago - compared Azimut, Ferretti, Princess, Sunseeker & Marquis for a boat in the 60' range.

    My personal views are ---

    1. Marquis - I was not impressed with the build or finish quality of the stock boat that was brought in. The local dealer was unable to instill any degree of confidence that it would not be so on other boats that came in. Incidentally, there is a Marquis dealer in Dubai.

    2. Princess - This was my no. 2 choice in the shortlist. Impressive boat. Competitively priced.

    3. Sunseeker - Had I ordered, it would have been the only Sunseeker here. The question that came up was why weren't there any more ...

    4. Azimut - Good boat, though the factory was unwilling to accommodate requests for even minor changes. Strange.

    5. Ferretti - I found that this had everything that I wanted, layout, finish, whatever. Compared to the Azimut, the interior layout was superior in that it afforded more space due to design.

    Hope this helps you decide. My two cents worth. Hope I'm not treading on any toes here.

    Cheers.
  15. T.K.

    T.K. Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    1,011
    Location:
    Cairo - Egypt
    Hi Hiper........glad to see you around here, so it's not only Ferraris ;).
    I own a 2008 Fairline Squadron 78, it's exactly 24.37m long. I did the same research you are doing now and decided on the Fairline. Have a look at it, it might be of interest. There is also a Fairline dealer in Dubai. I have a good friend in Doha who just bought a Fairline Squadron 78 and it's arriving in Doha around March 20th, you can have a look at it once it's there if you wish. If you are interested in a Fairline, I can introduce you to some main people at Fairline and you might get a good deal. Fairline will also be launching the new Squadron 85 towards the end of the year.......I've seen the drawings, a very nice boat.
    This is a thread with pictures which I had started on my Squadron 78: http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/fairline-yacht/7810-my-new-fairline-squadron-78-build.html
    Today, I would buy a boat of British make..........the Sterling Pound is almost at it's lowest levels against the Dollar and you would be saving almost 30% when comparing British boats in Sterlings to Euro boats in the same size range.

    Regards,

    Tarek
  16. Hiper

    Hiper New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Messages:
    64
    Location:
    Middle East
    I had no idea that the 30m was initially designed as a 28m. I have been on a 30m a few years ago, and am familiar with it. I guess Ferretti found a market for both a 26m and a 33m, instead of just having a 28m. Good for them!
  17. Hiper

    Hiper New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Messages:
    64
    Location:
    Middle East
    Thats exactly why the after-sales support is #1 on my list of factors to consider prior to purchasing! I'm in the midst of doing some more research on Princess's network in the region, and talking to some of the current owners of Princess yachts to find out what their ownership experience has been like.
  18. T.K.

    T.K. Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2007
    Messages:
    1,011
    Location:
    Cairo - Egypt
    If I am not mistaken, the Princess dealer for the ME region is in Beirut.
  19. Hiper

    Hiper New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Messages:
    64
    Location:
    Middle East
    Heyy Tarek! Small world! I've actually found several members from f-chat on some other forums I follow. I guess we car enthusiasts have a lot in common.

    I just spent 15 minutes going over your boat's thread. Congratulations on getting a beautiful boat! You my friend are lucky to be able to enjoy your boat in the amazing waters of the Red Sea, while also being able to cruise down to the Med and enjoy its many ports and locations! I wish it was that easy with cruising in the Gulf :( I will definitely look into the Fairline 85. I had previously done some research on Fairline, but took them off my list once I realized they had practically very little presence here in the Gulf. However, it seems like they're being a bit more competitive in the region, so lets see what the 85 will be like :)

    And with regards to buying a British made boat, I agree 100%. Our KD (Kuwaiti Dinar) has appreciated over 20% against the Sterling pound over the last 6 months, whereas it has only appreciated about 10% against the Euro as of today. But, as MaxPower said, Ferretti offers everything I need and more, where I found their boats to be the perfect design and use of space, along with the necessary features.

    Let's see how things go. I've still got a lot of research to do. Too bad I missed the Miami Boat Show this year :(
  20. Hiper

    Hiper New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2009
    Messages:
    64
    Location:
    Middle East
    The Ferretti dealer is also based in Beirut (Sea Pros). But they don't cover the entire ME region, just Lebanon, Kuwait, and the UAE I think.

    I know the rep for Princess in Kuwait. He sold us our Majesty 66 back in 2002. He has already sent me some pics of a ready built 85 with hardtop, but I wasn't too impressed with the quotation they sent. Ferretti have sent me a quotation for an 830 with hardtop, and it was about 20% less landed in Kuwait.