Hull Paint: Alexseal or Awlgrip

Without seeing an applicators log of how the system was applied and the climate data the transom looks like its more of a application process failure and less of a system failure. When the substrate GRP was Ground or machine sanded with 80 - 120 grit sanding disks taking it down to base material the GRP should have received a coat of Hull Guard epoxy primer to seal the GRP and vinylesters / resins. Awl Fair LW would have been applied and sanded followed by high build or ultra build epoxy filler primer machine sanded and the final top coat converter of 545 applied and sanded smooth for the color coat. Your photos look to show a bonding reaction between the process steps and without taking it down to the substrate again and following the application system guidelines to the letter you'll never know what this particular failure was unfortunately.

Have seen some pictures of just launched megayacht projects.

Still a number of finish problems especially on blue hulls- both dull and heavy finishing) on the large yachts class, despite the fact that we are not aware which paint brand has been used.

K1W1- For a current project it would be very useful to be able share your information regarding Awlgrip. I am concerned that the Yard's pressure to use Awlgrip is not the best choice for the client. Technical evidence to support my opinion that Awlgrip is currently not the best choice would be very useful. Would it be possible to discuss this further?

I've had a couple of boats sprayed with either Awlgrip or Awlcraft 2000 in the last few years and they came out flawless and have had no issues with the paint. One of them is a midnight blue Awlcraft 2000 hull, it is a VERY nice paintjob. Quite honestly, the need to wax Alexseal and all the labor and expense of doing so every 3-4 months, kills the entire Alexseal deal for me. Awlgrip, you just wash with Awlwash and you're done.....no need to do anything else.

Most of the finish issues I see in the end product of a paint job result from poor prep work or poor mixing and thinning of the paint, and not the actual paint itself. If the yard likes Awlgrip, uses it on 97% of their paintjobs, then that's what I'd go with. There is a learning curve with every paint brand, you don't want them learning on your boat.

Where are you getting the info on needing to wax Alexseal Capt J? I understand that any LPU paint that has been buffed will need waxing in perpetuity but I'm unaware of any special requirements for Alexseal. I shoot every brand of topcoat and have been shot many, many boats with Alexseal and have boats ten years old that didn't need waxing for 6-8 years.

From Alexseal's website under care and maintanence:
It is recommended to apply a high quality wax or polymer sealer designed for surfaces painted with polyurethane at least 2-3 times per year. This will act as a sacrificial coating that will protect the paint and can dramatically improve the coatings life expectancy.

Many companies manufacture products for sealing and protecting painted surfaces. Only use products that are specifically designed for surfaces painted with polyurethane. These products should not contain abrasives or caustic chemicals.

Many surfaces on a boat will require minor detailing over time. This might include removing mild overspray and tape lines from repainted panels or polishing an aged surface to temporarily restore the luster. When such areas need detailing as part of the initial application of the coating or periodically over time to repair fine scratches, use a protective wax or polymer sealer to help maintain the gloss in detailed areas. Detailing must be done by an experienced applicator either by hand, or slow speed polishing machine, using an applicator pad recommended by the product’s manufacturer.

Sealing and Protection: Use a UV stable polymer sealer or a non-abrasive wax which contains polymers designed for paint. 3M Scotch Guard Liquid Wax (9061/9062) Aquatech 201 Premier Polish Liquid Glass® Polish/Finish Meguiar’s Flagship Premium Marine Wax

http://www.alexseal.com/resources/care-maintenance

Alexseal is a long chain aliphatic acrylic polyurethane with cross chain polymers and hardeners that makes a brilliant DOI and gives it good abrasion resistance. It's chemical makeup is not to dissimilar to Awlcraft 2000 sans the additions. Acrylics are highly repairable and easy to blend and if needed will accept finishing compounds without damage to the top polymer. Awl Grip is a long chain linier Urethane Enamel that will not accept abrasive's such as fine compounds and glazes as it will damage the top polymer and dull the finish.
There's a new hybrid coating manufactured by Engineered Marine Coatings (EMC) that's a Polyester acrylic urethane with flow additives and hardeners that hit the market two years ago and is just now getting some notice as Quantum 99 top coat. I've had three boats painted with this product and was impressed by the ease of application and the resulting finish. This coating is highly repairable and easy to blend due to the acrylic nature but delivers high DOI of mid 90's and +2 Wa for orange peel on the vessels it was applied to. Time will tell how tough this hybrid coating really is so the jury will be out for another three or four years to see the results. One thing that did catch my attention is this companies willingness to discuss their 2 year warranty and be up front about warranty and support for their product line and that's twice as long as both of the above discussed.

Is anyone spraying Imron on yachts anymore? It seemed like there was a heyday of Imron use on yacht finishes in the 80's and 90's and I've seen it last a good 12 years and milked to 14-15 years in white. I thought it had good wear characteristics and it seems like everyone just stepped away from it and straight to Awlgrip in the mid 90's early 2000s.

Thanks for that excerpt Capt J. I guess I should read the literature more often even though their rep comes by the shop monthly. I do have a couple boats out there with 6 or 7 year old paint jobs including my own, that haven't been buffed or waxed and they are holding their gloss very well.

DuPont was getting aggressive in the marine market a few years back and had a complete product line that worked nicely on the boats I used it. For some reason they decided to abandon it, at least in our area their distributors no longer carry it and it's only available at auto paint supply houses.

That is probably because their required upkeep was so onerous that anyone with anything other than a trailer boat would need serious mental evaluation if they were to use it.

Imron is still being sprayed but has lost its market share just like Sterling has since the 80's and 90's.
If a customer requests an Imron coating these days he'll be getting a Acrylic urethane known as Imron Elite, its chemical makeup is similar to AwlCraft 2000. Up until the clean air act was introduced in 1998 Imron was a high solids Epoxy based urethane that had a brilliant DOI but had a reputation of high Wa for orange peel and would tax even the best two stage respirator being worn by the applicator. Imron also had a reputation for chalking after a few years in the sun due to its epoxy base . Since 1998 and the passage of the clean air act all high performance top coats have been going through chemical revisions to produce the best possible results and still fall below the 2.8 VOC limitation ruling. Imron is no different with its offerings of no less than five variations of the original Imron since 1998. Imron, Imron 3.5, Imron 2000, Imron 5000 and now Imron Elite. So when you read or overhear someone say that such & such manufacturer has changed the chemical recipe like Awl Grip has been accused of it all relates to reducing the VOC in the top coat and associated activators and reducers once they're combined and are off gassing into the atmosphere. Ten years ago manufacturers were producing waterborne activators and reducers that would evaporate at rapid speeds and assumed the general public would associate "waterborne" or water based as being environmentally friendlier but at the end of the day they're chemical compounds and VOC were no less toxic than the aliphatic or aromatics being produced. With the new high solids hybrid Polyester acrylic urethanes the manufactures are dancing with the VOC issues by changing the molecular structures of the binder or activators in the paint system with excellent results.

I see a different scenario on the Hatteras' I have managed with the Alexseal, and a friend manages a few others as well 2006' 2008' 2009, they still shine sort of, but need to be waxed. Perhaps it was previous care (using the wrong boat soap) etc. who knows......

We have two boats with Alexseal. Do we need to wax? I really am not sure and tend to doubt the need. Do we wax? Yes. We prefer to think of it as Alexseal does, Sealing and Protecting. We do it 3 times a year (Alexseal recommends 2-3 times). I don't know how many people do what. I do know I see a lot of Westports and Hatteras boats with Alexseal that have held up very well over quite a few years.

Capt J, thank you for your comments. The yard has experience with all the major brands and application is not the issue I am most concerned with. It really is the quality of the paint I am after. If there are acknowledged issues with Awlgrip we should at least look at that and see if and how they can be managed.

Im well aware of the reservations/problems of the last years but need to say Awlgrip is performing quite well lastly.On a recent big job a number of shoots gave us GU levels well above 100.
There are some pros and cons of each paint,and manufacturer are not going to tell the cons always!..One product is promoted for better flow and GU,whereas the other brands may seem a bit more thick -slight peely effect -but claiming better durability which is the attractive point for some owner reps.

Here is South Florida I have heard of no problems. Perhaps the problems you read about are people trying to spray Awlgrip when it's 50F in the paintbooth and using too much fast reducer to try to compensate for the temperature? Just a theory.

My 2006 Beneteau was sprayed with Imron green in 2006 by the factory. 10 years later it still shines with a deep luster. The painters in the local yard were remarking how the boat still looked 10 years later. They seldom see great paint jobs, they related.

It is pity how Axalta seems to ignore the potential of their paints in yachting specifically.they are ok with selling only metallics and dont invest further with managrment to deal with marine coatings.