Hull Paint: Alexseal or Awlgrip

Any paint job looks good from across the dock.

But, the alongside picture which shows the clear reflection of the work stands is amazing. Your painter did a very nice job

It would appear that at least in the 2nd photo, we're talking about an un-faired hull (at least, I hope so, because I can clearly see all the contours of the welded plates)...?! I'm not saying that an "un-faired" hull necessarily precludes any vessel from being considered a yacht or superyacht. All your other photos are of too small a size and/or definition to arrive at any proper conclusion (however other contributors to this thread have managed...?!) But from a truly "superyacht" point of view, I'd suggest that the finish you describe as "fantastic" is not one I would personally have used...

You need to take a closer look. This isn't an alloy boat. It's glass and the finish is so good, it's reflecting the pipes on the interior walls of the paint facility.

Hi,

Have you been on the Pastis again.

It is a fiberglass boat and the lines you can see are the frames on the inside of the shed where the photos are taken.

Maybe as you are such a fan of Awlgrip you have forgotten what a shiny paintjob actually looks like

Dear Carl and K1W1,

I've spent 15 minutes trying to reconcile that "all the lines" and what I considered to be welded hull-plate seams in the original photo are merely reflections of the paint shed's structure...?! Perhaps you have access to photos of a higher definition. Whatever,

Was he referring to the same picture or one of the others showing the yacht alongside the quay, where the wind is obviously blowing, creating ripples on the surface...?

I have no direct interest in Awlgrip paints. Other than to comment that their paints have apparently satisfied yacht owners for at least the past 20 years. Or that new superyachts launched today and painted in Awlgrip usually come with iron-clad guaratees - the most recent I know of being a Feadship, where the complete hull is being repainted under warranty with the builder (and their insurers) upfronting Euro 650,000. And that Awlgrip paints are usually available for immediate delivery, or at least within 1-2 working days in most ports frequented by superyachts in Europe, N. America and elsewhere.

When other paint manufacturers come up with similar guarantees for the yacht builder / paint applicator / yacht owner, they too can perhaps be taken seriously...?!

Fiberglass isn't usually welded. What you're looking at is either as YachtForums said or a bulkhead impression or could be (though I doubt) the point of connection between two parts of the boat (I believe that's a single piece hull though).

So, if it means so much to you, please invite (and pay for) an independent assessor to establish current gloss levels etc. with another in say 3/4 years...?!

My replies to this thread hitherto, may have been mistaken for a "witch-hunt" against Alexseal Coatings products. The fact is that back in 2007/8 or thereabouts, I came cross my very 1st "Alexseal Coatings" yacht (one that was basically entirely painted using their paints predominantly). I've known her "supervising Captain during construction" for at least 12 years. More importantly perhaps, I had a conversation then with a locally-based applicator of yacht paints (one that I've known for at least 17 years) specialising in the brush / roller application of basically all major "yacht paints", and who had been contracted to effect repairs to various areas of the 45m motor yacht concerned. Remember that this is someone who has regularly applied Sterling / Awlgrip / International products over the past 20 years or so. What he had to say basically about the Alexseal product that he was contracted to apply / repair was that:

1) The product was easy to mix / prepare/ use.
2) As an applicator, the Alexseal product's flow characteristics and properties allowed him to extract / produce his best efforts. If only Awlgrip (most of his most important customers are still painted with Awlgrip) still offered the same characteristics when it comes to repairs etc. (NB. This is coming from someone who's applied all the products from the most important yacht paint providers over 20 years.​

Of course, as a local "refinisher", Alexseal products are not immediately available locally through any chandler or even the major "yachting" paint distributor. Even in Antibes, the most important yachting centre in the Mediterranean...?!

Whatever the initial quality of the product, there must be a firm investment and commitment in terms of support to all yacht customers and applicators, whereever they (the yachts) are, once they've left the shipyard. That is perhaps the issue facing Alexseal today. Will they invest sufficiently to support their product worldwide ...?!

What you are seeing in the 2nd photo is the reflection from the hull paint of the steel beams supporting the steel building that the boat was painted in. The paint is sooooo glossy, you are seeing the shed in the background in the paints reflection.

Well, here we all are in July 2011.

A few weeks ago, I was walking into the car park at Port Vauban one morning, when I raised my eyes to be confronted by the latest 100m+ behemoth twin-funneled "yacht" that occupied the usual IYCA berth of Octopus or Pelorus, and shutting out the usual morning sunshine...

There are so many new and very big yachts about these days. Personally, I don't really like dealing with their crews. In my humble experience, their skills using the internet and email are usually dismal. They email photos (.jpg images) showing spare parts requested (each photo often exceeding 2MB etc.). But even that's an improvement on the usual communications, they call you via satellite phone, expect you to call them back on said number at US$1 per minute...?! But don't worry. By the time the spare part becomes truly urgent, they've already left the vessel (either because they've been fired or left on vacation on rotation).

Some yachts and their managers complain about the prices for supply of their toilet parts - vacuum toilets (eg. EVAC / JETS etc.). "We were quoted 30% less - delivery delay 60-90 days".

Oh yeah. Were you looking for genuine spare parts or pirated far-Eastern made copies?

You know why genuine EVAC toilet parts appear so expensive to most yacht engineers / managing agents? Take a single recent cruise ship for Carribean cruises: anywhere between 2,500 and 3,500 passengers plus crew. How many toilets...?! You want to pay the same price as the operators of these huge cruise-ships for these parts...?! Get a grip on reality puhleeze...?!

Most yacht crew don't understand the term "reasonable profit" for goods and services supplied. Sometimes, they'll email a link for a product sold on some website - "please supply this". Expecting that at worst, we'll be able to supply this item with perhaps a small 5-10% markup...?! Anymore than that, and they'd believe we were profiteering.

Sincerely, "those yacht crew" should perhaps take a closer look at their own yacht owner's business interests before "condemning" us...?! Which is to question whether their owners have any truly visible and/or legitimate business interests anywhere. I'd suggest that they take a look at profit margins in various legitimate industries before reaching an opinion. The crew may be aboard for 6/12 months, but we look forward to dealing with them (the vessel) almost indefinitely, having acquired much useful information about the vessel- the longest period I've ever supplied a single vessel under various ownership is probably only about 8 years even so.

We can blame the usual yacht-brokers for the rest. Once they've distributed the 10% sales commissions between the interested parties, they're left with the management sometimes. But it's not their way really. Efficient management of a yacht would require huge investments in the employment of suitably-qualified personnel, over the long-term. Ideally, the personnel involved with the particular yacht sale would still be 100% involved 5 years later.

I'm trying to think of why we have all these companies today (Oceanco, Fraser Yachts, C&N etc.) who somehow are able to secure lucrative contracts to manage crews, refits, supplies etc. on behalf of clients (immature 1st time yacht-owners) sometimes.

30 years ago, most yacht owners and their captains (who managed the yacht "completely"), did not have to deal with the yacht broker / manager. The yacht owner implicitly trusted his skipper. The yacht broker / managers have since managed to terrorise most yacht owners into distrusting their individual skippers. Suggesting back-handers and/or other inducements as excuse for their agencies' annihilation of the independent skipper.

And I've yet to see any improved distribution network of ALEXSEAL paints in the Mediterranean as of July 2011...

I'm trying to think of why we have all these companies today (Oceanco, Fraser Yachts, C&N etc.) who somehow are able to secure lucrative contracts to manage crews, refits, supplies etc. on behalf of clients (immature 1st time yacht-owners) sometimes..[/QUOTE]

Hi,

That is because the brokers who deal with the clients and do or do not disclose their affiliations to these businesses steer the clients towards their contacts with horror stories of refits where the Capt was in charge and three main engines were delivered when only two were needed, the Skipper also needed one for his own boat etc, etc.

They can justify the exorbitant monthly fees charged by these saying this is all that you will pay and so and so gets a major discount that will cover most if not all of these fees bla, bla.

A example of the falsehood of at least one of these companies operation is as follows.

Captain Bligh contacts a supplier he is instructed to by management and forgets to mention his instructions to say it was for so and so Management Co.

He gets a price and shows it to the client when questioned about the large cost of things , the client says it is to much and asks for a second quote, the Chief Officer Fletcher Christian is asked to take over this task on behalf of the Master. He knocks off a couple of doubled up items and asks for a price on what's left asking for the management Co's discount in hope of getting a sensible quote in return.

Shock, Horror, Stun the price with the discount shown on it for a reduced list is 10% more than the original list with no discount and more things.

No guessing required to work out what goes on there as far as I can see.

I am told by some colleagues that one of the companies in your list force yachts to use a certain preferred supplier that is not well known for it's ability to produce goods and equipment at the lowest end of the price spectrum.

Have you seen any increase in quality of your beloved AwlGrip in the meantime either?

Touché...

However, I've never actually been in love with US Paints / AWLGRIP. Having said that, I've always respected the important investments made in their worldwide distribution network, ensuring most yachts are able to obtain their paints through a local supplier / chandler at short notice.

Update: That 65m Feadship I mentioned earlier was eventually repainted "under warranty" in a Spanish shipyard last autumn 2010.

When choosing any paint manufacturer / applicator, you should never forget the important costs involved in repainting a superyacht if/when stuff goes wrong. Like €650,000 just for a new paint job on just the hull of a 65m Feadship (hey, that's like €10.000 per metre LOA...a new norm, like the old US$1 million per metre LOA for new yacht construction?).

All I'm asking is that the "newer entrants" to the superyacht industry understand and respect that they are also required to engage sufficient resources to support their products/services, however good or bad they are compared to existing manufacturers etc. Otherwise, they merely contribute to the impression that many have in the profession - that all anyone has to do is stick a "for superyacht" label to a standard and mundane product, charge 500% the normal selling price in another industry for it and then reap all the profits, at least until word gets about...

The basic price of any paint per m² or whatever should not be the determining factor IMHO. The other factors: warranties from the paint manufacturer / builder in conjunction with the applicator should also be equally determining factors. Just as ease of use by yacht crews when it comes to repairing these coatings and touch-ups and availability of the paints in major yachting centres.

one manufacturer misses good networking and support of their products..
the other one seems to be not the same as 5 years before,in terms of appearance..

The other one as in quality as well. I had a very reputable painter spray the hull of a 58' Searay, everytime it grapefruit peeled it was so bad......They sprayed it 4 different times, and the last time it still was not really nice by any means, and barely acceptable by most Captains......

WOW! Four times and still the same results? Sure hope the owner wasn't charged for all that extra work to sand, prep and reshoot! Didn't anyone try calling the rep for advice? Excessive orange (or grapefruit) peel, no matter what brand paint, is usually helped by adding more reducer, especially in hot climates like Florida. Over 80 degrees he should have been using something like 1:1:3/4 (Base:converter:SLOW reducer). It's thinner than the normal cooler temp mix ratios and doesn't cover as well but will flow out before skinning over. You also have to flow every coat. You can't shoot a dry tack coat and flow it with the next coats like Awl-Grip or Imron.

At least she now has plenty of paint buildup for buffing in the future!

Hi,

On a project I am involved in we have recently been looking at DuPont for a topcoat system.

There have been a number of test panels done using the shell doors as large test areas and the slight orange peel we get is no worse than what can be seen on any number of high end cars in the car park.

The stumbling block for change is who will cover what under warranty and for how much.

No one sees the quality under the last coat of paint and this is unfortunately the item that seems to let the rest of the project down so often these days.

Yes, 4 times. The paint company were the ones that ate re-painting it, and they do a LOT of yachts. Luckily it was just the hull and a flat surface, so for them to get the DA out and sand it again, wasn't as bad or time consuming as the topsides. Being that it was Navy Blue didn't help either.

I know, my dad used to own an auto body/paint shop. Down here you pretty much should use nothing but slow reducer, catalyst, and thinner. He was a master at painting, he never measured the reducer, he'd pour it into his mixing pail and stir it, lift the wooden stirrer out at an angle and then just say it needs a little more reducer.......and then ok it's right. His paint jobs (on cars) flowed perfectly and never even needed to be wet sanded and buffed. He did a few boats over the years as well.... I remember a few Magnums and a cigarette or two........We were always very happy with the RM eurethanes (at least on auto's).

I was very happy with an Imron on a yacht I used to run, it was (the paint) 12 years old at the time and the paint had held up very well. You don't see anyone using it anymore for the most part.

Dupont has always made good paint, but it was never considered great. If you go with black, it's not as rich or deep of a black as other manufacturers due to the pigments Dupont uses. It does usually lay down well. How it holds up to the salt, I do not know.