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HRO/Sea Recovery Watermakers

Discussion in 'Watermakers' started by dev0n60, Jul 24, 2012.

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  1. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    I could not open your picture file. Thanks anyway for telling us that you once got a reconditioned pump for free from HRO. If they knew already then it was a "250 hour pump", did they not suggest to upgrade to the vane pump?

    In 2006 the vane type seems to be the one and only feed pump for all their systems, so I doubt they at that time were delivering new systems with pumps they knew should fail after 250 hours..?

    http://www.artimarin.com/PDF/Seafari_Escape_Owner_Manual_Oct06_web.pdf

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  2. dev0n60

    dev0n60 Guest

    Thank you AMG for the post and Sea Recovery archive drawing!
    Is there someone to contact regarding the 12 photos I uploaded to Yacht Forums yesterday? I can't get the album to open either......
    The options for a number of different pumps was delineated in conversations and emails I had with Chris Rollins in early 2011. Up until Nov 2009 when we talked with Mike Harris we did not even know the reason for the performance drop off.
    Chris told us they no longer supplied the vane pumps because of problems that arose with these pumps from debris and air.
    The only other credible option Chris disclosed was to spend the $2150.00 for the CAT/Plunger Pump.... which we did..... and that fiasco is what got this all made public.
    We are very glad we have received the info needed from our participation in the forum.
    We reiterate that spending $11,000.00 of one's own money and then getting asked to cough up another $2150 is not anyones idea of good times!
    Someone please let us know if we need to upload the photos again or how to get the ones uploaded yesterday unlocked so they can be viewed by forum members.
  3. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Don't remind me how much of my own money I have spent on replacing computers and software that has become obsolete since 2003...
  4. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Re: Post 61

    That pump is "field repairable" in about 30 minutes on the galley table with probably just a change of "liner" and vanes.
  5. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    Here are the photos he was trying to upload, the ETD thing has me the most interested, how can a diaphragm pump supply enough grunt to push water through the membrane?

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  6. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Here are some more

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  7. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    That is a Procon PD pump. Here is where to get the repair parts. It is up to you to find room on the galley table.

    Procon Pump Parts - Dultmeier Sales

    Here's the manufacturer's data:

    http://96.61.63.50/techlib/Procon/Procon_Pump_General_cat_D603.pdf

    Google Procon and you will find all the technical information you need to maintain and repair the things. This is not rocket science as much as the supplier would like you to think it is.

    K1W1, the "ETD" is what makes the high pressure. It is an "intensifier" just like used to boost shop air up to high pressure or to use shop air to drive a hydrostatic test pump. It uses a large volume of low pressure fluid to create a small volume of high pressure fluid.

    We used a similar hydraulic powered unit as a high pressure ballast pump on deep diving submersibles down to 2000 meters.

    I suspect that the diaphragm pump is used elsewhere, if it is used as a "boost" pump then that explains why the vane pump died so early. A vane pump with any kind of a suction head will destroy itself rapidly due to cavitation.

    Looking at those pictures, it appears that the Shur Flo is used as a "freshwater flush pump." Unless the flushing check valve is leaking because of debris from the PD pump vanes and is over pressurizing the diaphragm, it should last forever as it gets less use in that application than it would as a potable water pump in a small boat.
  8. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    If you sent this Mary Day the same pictures you have posted here, I think this is not what I was expecting. The box is still in one piece and I can not even see that any pounding has occured..? Oil I can see, but this is all.
  9. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    I have to say that I don't see any damage to the pump or packaging beyond the oil... Did it really get in the pump motor and brushes?

    One issue to watch for in some installs, are those zip ties chaffing thru hoses. I don't really see many here but when beard marine installed our 900 GPD modular, the installer tightened Some if the zip ties too tight on some of of the thin nylon tubes used to send feedback to the unit. Over the last 4 years, 3 have sprung leaks resulting in the loss of one Air con pump. The other 2 were caught in time when a bilge pump came on. Major PITA to check and correct all the others scattered around the ER.
  10. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

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    I dunno



    Interesting the similarity between the image in section 9; page 8 of 54 (page 212 of 266 of PDF) of the above link from AMG's post and the image on page 6 of 45 of the second link from Marmot's post.




  11. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

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    I dunno
    The Nameplate in both images are amazingly similar.

    Is HRO and Procon the same company?
  12. dev0n60

    dev0n60 Guest

    Thanks AMG.... there is another photo not in this series that shows the box perforated by the pump... a close up. In the series you can just see it: 2 holes in the side of the box. In the close up you can see the pump thru the holes.
    Per the post by 'Capt J' earlier in this forum : I think we can all agree that if you had just spent $2150.00 of your own money you would expect an exchange. You would not be happy accepting this result.
  13. dev0n60

    dev0n60 Guest

    Hi Marmot; Thanks again for taking the time. The Shurflo Pump in the Image is the Sea Water Pump supplying the ETD. These are the Diaphragm pumps Sea Recovery supplied that I have been writing of. Doomed to failure after about 250 hours.
    The Fresh Water Flush is supplied by the boat fresh water pump in the engine room and plumbed to the water maker compartment in the photos.
    There is NO vane pump in this system. There is no boost pump. Just the diaphragm pump feeding the ETD.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2012
  14. dev0n60

    dev0n60 Guest

    Thank you K1W1 for posting these for us.
  15. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Now I am even more confused. Exactly what make and model of watermaker do you have?

    Why would you buy a CAT high pressure pump if you have that ETD pump that is intended to operate on low pressure water?

    There really is a lot of information missing. If it is not the Safari system as AMG referenced and posted the pump drawing why on Earth didn't you say so way back then? This is getting to be a waste of time ...
  16. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Generally the zip ties don't cut through the tubing from being too tight. The watermaker lines (if they're flexible) will carry a lot of vibration through them and if the tie wraps are a little loose, it will work as a saw eventually chafing through them.....

    As for how to make your watermaker work without all the computer crap......The old school watermakers (like Galleymaid) had a low pressure pump, such as your typical air conditioning pump like a Oberdorfer (with the proper volume), then you had a high pressure pump which in often cases on the 30 gph-50gph units was nothing more than a pressure cleaner pump driven by an electric motor and a belt, you had a manual valve to restrict bypass flow past the membranes and adjust pressure, a pressure gauge that read the pressure going through the membranes and a salinity sensor that shut the system off if salinity was over 500ppm or so.
  17. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    You might well find that the "vibration" you feel is actually pressure pulsations from the plunger type HP pump.

    The Pressure Regulating Valve after the membranes is a flow rerstricter which raises the full flow pressure behind it pushng a portion of this flow through the membrane as what we call fresh water.
  18. dev0n60

    dev0n60 Guest

    Hi Marmot; Sorry you are confused.
    The system is a Safari Escape 200. Sea Recovery Model # SEM200. Would you like the serial number?
    The CAT pump is what they sold us for the reasons outlined in the original post. Chris Rollins said this is the pump we needed if we wanted to go more than 250 hours on a pump.
    Honestly, we have submitted every piece of info asked for. Tell me what would you like next?
    Now you are getting an idea of what we have been up against.... for almost 3 years now since the discovery that the diaphragm pumps supplied were not going to last long.
  19. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    If I was on the other side of the globe and got a pump with oil on, I would have wiped it off and connected it to see if it was running and working as it should.

    If it didnĀ“t I would find out if there was oil inside the motor or if any dent was of harm, before thinking of sending it back.

    When I have been sailing legs over several weeks, I am used to fix an average of one to three problems a day with what I have onboard. Therefore I find it a little strange that you after 22 years onboard, not even tried if the new pump is working...
  20. dev0n60

    dev0n60 Guest

    Thanks for the response AMG ;
    I have uploaded the close up image. As you see the box has been perforated.
    To be honest, we find your insistence that you would be satisfied with spending $2150.00 of your own money and receiving damaged goods....well, it is sort of weird...
    Perhaps you are wealthy enough and it just does not matter? If it stops working just buy another?
    If a vendor sells you something that is supposed to be new... well, we just think that for most people that is just what they would expect to receive.
    You keep insisting that we should have just accepted it, spent our own time cleaning up their mistakes and carry on as if nothing had happened... strange.
    Please do not forget (we posted this earlier): Sea Recovery had nothing to lose by exchanging the pump.... they did not want the damaged pump back! Thats right, they refused to accept it. As we have posted previously, if it was just a matter for them to clean up their own mess and resell the damaged pump (provided nothing was wrong with it) they stood to lose nothing by exchanging it.
    It does make us wonder if you have a stake in this? It is almost as though you are intentionally trying to cast doubts?
    As I have written previously; let us know where you want us to send the 200+ emails so you can peruse them.... although we do have our own doubts that even this would be enough for you.
    All of this extraneous debate is getting really off the track. We have found that some parts of this debate in the forum, by some members, not helpful and distracting to the matter at hand.
    I think we have pointed out just what could happen if one buys something from HRO Sea Recovery. I think we have made clear that they are a deceptive and dishonest bunch (it is not slander if it is true and we have the dishonesty in writing from them). Remember, none of this would be happening if Sea Recovery had not sold the doomed Diaphragm pumps to customers buying their systems... end of story. If you are happy to take your chances and use this company... well, good luck to you.
    It was our intention to let others know so hopefully they could avoid our mistakes.
    We think that has been accomplished.
    Thanks again anyway, AMG for keeping the debate going!

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