Click for Westport Click for JetForums Click for Delta Click for Cross Click for Burger

Fuel Filtering or Cleaning

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by BONDVOYAGE, Apr 20, 2009.

You need to be registered and signed in to view this content.
  1. Capt Bill11

    Capt Bill11 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Messages:
    1,459
    Location:
    Sarasota/Ft. Lauderdale FL
    On dual or triple Racors the gauges can and often do replace the T handle lid hold down. I would add the vacuum gauges along with water probes and alarms.

    As to the condition of the fuel. Before I would cut access plates in the tanks, which I think is about the only way to truly clean out fuel tanks if the don't already have them, I would top off the tanks with fresh fuel and add a fuel conditioner like PRI-D and run the boat and burn off the old fuel while keeping an eye on the filters.
  2. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Messages:
    2,981
    Location:
    St Augustine, Fl and Thailand
    Modern-day Fuels

    Just placing a marker in this conversation as a friend of mine who has had considerable experience with cleaning fuel was talking with me about a week ago on this subject. I couldn't retain all that he was telling me of numerous jobs he has performed on fuel cleaning, particularly these emergency generator facilities for all types of businesses on land...hospitals etc, etc.

    So I don't want to mis-speak until I ask him many more questions.

    I do remember one item I found interesting. I told him I remember fuel being a lot more stable in old days than it appears now. He said the modern day 'cracking process' to extract max diesel from a barrel of crude has resulted in a less stable product these days.

    The visions that entered my mind were this modern situation we have with ethanol in our gasoline. It has ruined gasoline as we once knew it.
  3. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,427
    Location:
    My Office
    There is a good article in the latest Dockwalk and MER that gives a good insight to this.
  4. scott49

    scott49 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2008
    Messages:
    110
    Location:
    Woodinville,Washington
    I was on a yacht that had fuel that was over three years old. Boat had sat so long that one turbo was froze up. cylinder walls had rust pits. The oil samples showed chrome molly and iron.
    The design of the boat was baffles all thou the 4 tanks. No way to really get to all the dirt, fungus, Etc out. We purchased two cases of racor filters and left for the Bahamas. Kept a close eye on the filters and had no problems. Run the boat for over 6 years and still never had a fuel problem. You can purchase filters on line for a 1/3 of most stores.
  5. GrahamF

    GrahamF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Messages:
    537
    Location:
    Palma Spain/ South Africa
    I had some fungus in the fuel in a 47' Powercat. I will probably just install a reverso fuelpolishing system as i have got some bad fuel once in Sicily. They are small but good units.
  6. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Messages:
    2,981
    Location:
    St Augustine, Fl and Thailand
    Article References

    Can you give us some web-links to those articles? Or post some portions of them?
  7. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,427
    Location:
    My Office
  8. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Messages:
    2,981
    Location:
    St Augustine, Fl and Thailand
    Aren't both of these reports more oriented towards 'bunker fuel', a far less quality than that refined for boat and truck diesel fuels ??
  9. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,427
    Location:
    My Office
    Hi,



    It is my understanding that the modern day refining practices affect everything that is extracted and that which is left behind in various ways.

    When you buy 2 or 300,000 Lts of what is regularly sold to yachts as Automotive Diesel you will rarely find that it matches the provided spec sheet.

    The extraction of the majority of the Sulphur and the addition of Ethanol etc to Automotive Diesel does not seem to have done anything to improve the stability of these fuels.

    The wind might not be constantly reliable but it at least doesn't have a lot of the problems of fuel!
  10. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    3,311
    Location:
    9114 S. Central Ave
    This highlights the very important requirement to demand a properly detailed bunker receipt and obtain legitimate samples every time the yacht is fueled. By legitimate samples I mean actually taking them as bunkering progresses, not just accepting a sealed can or bottle the supplier claims to represent that load.

    Ethanol blends may (almost certainly will) lower the flashpoint below the minimum. This is both illegal and dangerous. It also puts the chief engineer in a precarious position if he is a bit too casual about documentation and sampling procedures.

    I hope it doesn't get to the point where yachts have to be equipped with fuel test cabinets but given the questionable pedigree and handling of marine fuels in some locations, onobard testing might become advisable.
  11. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    3,311
    Location:
    9114 S. Central Ave
    "Bunkers" can be refined or residual fuel, it is a term that refers to the ship's fuel. Those reports are more oriented to residual fuels but the nature of the fuel and its quality are different issues.

    The heaviest of marine fuels is still a high quality fuel when it meets the specifications and those specs are varied to precisely meet the user's needs. Most are blends of heavy residual and refined fuels in various proportions.

    When fuel is contaminated with water, solids, waste oil, or fuel farm slops then it becomes low quality and this applies to even the lightest and most highly refined products as well.
  12. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,427
    Location:
    My Office
    Hi,

    Following a recent major fuel duffer on a large yacht that cost more than 500k Euro to repair that I have become aware of through industry contacts and being an ex shipmate of the serving CE, it is something I am leaning towards heavily especially for onboard Flashpoint testing.

    Onboard drip sample equipment also needs to be fitted and accessible- something I have recently had to battle to get even though it is a MARPOL Annex VI Requirement.

    I have also heard a lot of criticism of FOBAS as it is used now for the time taken to respond and the small number of things it checks and would be keen to be able to have more control/supervision of this vitally important element onboard.
  13. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Messages:
    2,981
    Location:
    St Augustine, Fl and Thailand
    Ethanol into Diesel Fuel??

    Are they really putting ethanol into diesel fuel??
  14. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Messages:
    2,981
    Location:
    St Augustine, Fl and Thailand
    Maybe I used the wrong term here. I generally thought of 'bunker fuel' as that lower grade, heavy crude that is burned in big freight ships. There engines are designed to run on this lower grade fuel that yachts would have big trouble with.

    And Ethanol is highly attractive to water.
  15. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2005
    Messages:
    7,427
    Location:
    My Office
    Hi,

    Here is a reasonably easy way to understand the different grades of Fuel (Bunkers)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_oil
  16. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    3,311
    Location:
    9114 S. Central Ave
    From what I have been able to determine, no, not really much, if any lately. If that sounds a bit evasive, it was meant to be.

    A couple of years ago there was a movement afoot to add <10 percent ethanol to diesel along with some kind of magic sauce that allowed it to stay mixed in order to oxygenate the diesel and reduce some pollutants. The problem was ethanol and diesel don't really mix and all it did was change the ratio of pollutants around as well as increasing the flash point to what most diesel users would call a fire and explosion hazard.

    There are still a couple of biodiesel suppliers delivering fuel blended with ethanol though so it could be in the delivery system somewhere. The fact that it could exist is what makes things a bit uncomfortable. If no one is watching where an "out of spec" load of fuel was disposed of it might just as well be sold as good stuff in some palm shaded marina somewhere.

    While yachts are not quite as likely a target as a freighter, transient ocean going vessels have always represented a good means to dispose of a load of questionable fuel. That is precisely why bunker receipts are so specific and fuel testing is so common, it's self defense.
  17. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Messages:
    2,981
    Location:
    St Augustine, Fl and Thailand
    Thanks, that was quite informative. Lots of data there, but no mention of Ethanol blend.

    Appears as though my interpetation of bunker fuel was approximately correct, "Bunker fuel is technically any type of fuel oil used aboard ships. It gets its name from the containers on ships and in ports that it is stored in; in the days of steam they were coal bunkers but now they are bunker-fuel tanks."
  18. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Messages:
    2,981
    Location:
    St Augustine, Fl and Thailand
    Fuel Filter Problems, (Ethanol? Aluminium?)

    ...I saw this posting when I was looking for potential problems with 225 Hondas

    "Honda BF225 High-pressure Fuel Filter Problems (Ethanol? Aluminum?)

    I have a 2002 Honda BF225 outboard engine. The high-pressure fuel filter keeps getting clogged with white stuff.

    I'm already running both a Racor 10-micron and 2-micron fuel filter (new), but it appears the 10% ethanol gasonline is dissolving aluminum oxidation/corrosion from our aluminum fuel tank (or something bad) through both filters and into the engine where it clogs the high-pressure fuel filter (which must be 1-micron or less)......"


    http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=267299&page=1
  19. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Messages:
    2,981
    Location:
    St Augustine, Fl and Thailand
    Magic Crystals

    I saw this article in the Feb issue of SAIL magazine...rather interesting and well worth the read:

    There is a new way to keep your fuel clean
    Magic Crystals
    SAIL | Feb-12 | Inside | Zinio Digital Magazines

    SAIL | See Inside Page 70 | Feb-12 | Zinio Digital Magazines & Books

    This H2Out product has other uses as well such as in our cold boxes (refrigeration)
    H2Out ~ KEEP IT DRY
    ...a leader in developing reusable products for water adsorption technology. Made in the USA.

    H2Out® Systems prevent mold, mildew, rust and corrosion damage in fuels, fluids and interior spaces.

    .

    Attached Files: