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Florida Bridges

Discussion in 'Marinas & Waypoints' started by CaptNeil, Nov 8, 2009.

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  1. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Just make sure you save the wise comments until after you've cleared. Otherwise it may be a looooooong wait.
    Many years ago I came on a bridge in the Carolinas. When told it would be 20 minutes the boat's owner ordered him to open. "19 minutes" came the reply. The owner then threatened to report him. "18 minutes" came dripping with sweetness across the VHF. After a couple more exchanges I took the mike and kissed major butt explaining that I was having a hard time holding the 110' off the banks in the strong cross winds and would really appreciate anything the tender could do to help me out. "Let me get the traffic cleared and I'll get you through captain". When the owner objected to my kissing up I pointed out that this guy is probably making (then) $5 an hour and could have no better amusement than to watch a pushy rich guy from Florida go aground.
  2. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    This year I might just go for it.:(
  3. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    i just arrived in miami yesterday and i cant' think of any bridge that gave me a hard time. most guys were actaully really good at opening at the right time, sometimes i didnt' even had to stop. I did notice that they are asking boat names more than they used to. Never had one ask for doc. nr. I have feeling that they are under orders of FLDOR to keep better logs.

    I usually follow the format Capt J mentioned, that works very well. Put yourself in these guys shoes for a second, how would you feel about having to reply every 10 minutes to every idiot that is too lazy to get the bridge schedule and ask "when is your next opening?"

    it's like the guys who call themselves captain but can seem to figure out that if you're running 20kts, if the next bridge if 5 miles away and open 30 minutes from now, you may as well pull back to 10 knots. save the fuel instead of hurrying up and wait. Bridge schedule are easy to find and should be part of proper trip planning.

    courtesy goes a long way, with other boats and with bridge tenders.

    as to passing, i find that 80% of the sailboats reply to passing requests. Same with power boats, excpet some of the smaller express type boats.

    What i really can't stand, are the jerks that come flying up your stern, dont' call, dont' sound the REQUIRED signal, and pick a side at the last minute throwing a 4' wake. worst are those that slow down a little to what is basically maximum wake. There is no excuse for that, if you're in a rush, go outside.

    Whenever i run at 22kts cruise, I warn the slow guy ahead that i will slow down for a minimum wake pass on his xxxx side. i come off plane 200' before, maintain 10kts till my bow passes is stern then pull back to idle. If he pulls back, it all painless. If he chooses not to pull back, then when i'm alongside, I bump it back up a couple of hundred RPM, that's his choice, but he's only getting a very small wake.

    it takes about 30 to 45 seconds to do the pass... even if i do it at the most 20 or 30 times in a day, it's about 10 minutes total. what is the big deal?

    I run a lot of the ICW at hull speed, around 10kts, and find myself on the receiving end of the Capt Jerks who think their wake dont' stink and that their time is too precious that they can't possibly waste 10 minutes over an entire day of running.
  4. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    True, true. I generally push for time, however It's extremely rare to hear a wake complaint. More times than not I get a thank you for a nice pass and for me that's a source of pride. With a little co-operation it can all be done smooth, but that comes with experience. I still wish I could run the ICW @WOT but so much for dreams.
  5. Bamboo

    Bamboo Senior Member

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    I've never had a bridge ask for doc #'s, and I always "request" not demand. I believe bridge tenders have attitudes for a reason- surly boaters. I'm a towered boat so they do not ask if I really need a opening however. I need about 48 feet. I rarely ask or tell a sailboat I'm about to pass- and at over 20 meters rule 9b is in effect in the ICW. I still have very few issues and they usually wave thanks because I slow enough for them to see I see them, and then when very close I drop it to zero to let the wake hit my butt and kill itself then pass about 1 knot faster than whatever speed they are doing. Of course I still get folks jumping up and down screaming BEFORE I pass, but after they have a friendly wave because they got nearly no wake. The Bridge of Lions only had one span opening when I came down last week so I canceled at the Muni Marina and went to Comanche Cove instead. I did not want to risk the one span opening in the next day pre dawn am. Plus the previous spring they put me on the north side with a screaming northwest tide and two barges there forcing me to make a slip entrance that missed the boat next to me by inches and the floating dock by inches also- plus the dock hand had failed to secure my bow first so I had to tell him calmly but clear (and loud) that I had control of the stern and the bow would fall off shortly so go secure that first. The trawler owners next to me peed their pants, and four folks that watched asked if that was my slip all the time as I pulled so nicely.
  6. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    at $3 a foot, St Aug. municipal is a rip off... i know it sounds like pocket change compared to many places in the North :)

    I came thru the bridge of Lyons last Thu. morning I think, and indeed there was only one opened span with a ripping current. no big deal for me but there were 3 sailboats ahead which got cut off by another sailboat heading north agaisnt the current. close call for the down current guys, they were unable to back against the current when the jerk crawled thru up current...

    dont' want to sound picky, but I'm not sure what rule 9 has to do with passing signals... most sailboats are under power in teh ICW anyway but any case rule 9 doens't relieve anyone of sounding proper signals or making passing arrangements via VHF, narrow channel or not.

    one case of tender attitude... on sunday I heard a guy repeatedly calling "venetian causeway bridge" for an opening. After a few times, i called him to tell him that he may get better response stating East or West... it's obvious to us locals, even though many guides dont' specify that the ICW bridge is Venetian West... apparently neither tenders felt like they could help by asking the guy which bridge he was callling.
  7. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    Correct, they shouldn't cry when I wake them in an open speed area and when they don't slow down for a pass or come up on the proper radio channel. You should have no problem handling my wake as you should be secured for being underway. There is no guaranty of flat water on the ICW, and in stormy weather, I'd rather be offshore than inside, much safer even if it is bumpier. Every time the wind blows hard, I pass dozens of boats a day that have been blown up on the hard, not to mention that they lock the bridges down and you can't get through anyway. If it's 12' outside, you aren't going anywhere inside today anyway so you may as well just stay at your dock or nice anchorage until you are comfortable going offshore. If it's less than 12' offshore, you should be sailing there. Typically, it's less than 4' south of Hatteras and you can come out of Beaufort inlet and set a nice reach for St Augustine.

    As for radio procedures, 13 is the correct channel for bridge to bridge (BTW "bridge" references the part of the boat you drive from, not the thing that crosses the water) communications in US inland waters. When y'all are blocking up the airwaves of 16 with your traffic, you are endangering the lives of those offshore who may be trying to get a Mayday through. It is NOT my duty to find you on 16, it is your duty to be on the proper channel. If you do not come up on 13 for passing arrangement and pull it back to idle for a pass, I do not slow down, cry all you want.
  8. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    Well, thanks for the update, I did not relaize that the ICW was covered by the inland rules of the water, have to brush up on that one,
    Thanks,
    DM
  9. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    Inshore, it's not 10 minutes out of the day though, it's usually 40 - 50 passes, 2 and 3 at a time with them spaced widely apart and hogging the middle of the channel. Each of these pass takes 10 minutes, but that isn't that much of a problem, it's the fuel that you waste coming on and off plane, it makes for an extra fuel stop in the day. The people I run for don't want me running slow because the hours it racks up on their boats. They trade them in every 2 years so the depreciation in hours along with my extra days, is greater than the cost of the fuel to run at speed. That's why I don't run inside on the magenta line except for the 50 some miles between Norfolk and the sound under Coinjock. If the weather is too bad to run outside, I just sit in Beaufort for the weather to break rather than get caught between locked down bridges trying to run inside. My typical transit from Glen Cove LI to Miami or Boca is 4.5 days to Boca or 5 to Miami of running, and I'll usually lose one or two days to weather. I run 30 knots almost the whole way.
  10. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Please tell me that was tongue in cheek. Where to begin. Most of the snailboats on the ICW are not bluewater sailors. They're 20 something foot cheap transportation from Canada. There is no way that a short vhf channel 16 transmission on the ICW could possibly block a mayday from offshore. If boats don't monitor channel 16 who do you expect to answer your mayday? Just because somebody is stupid or ignorant doesn't authorize their destruction. And should we mention that most boaters barely know about channel 16. They don't have a clue about 13. That also doesn't authorize their destruction.
    And you make it from Glen Cove to Miami in 3.5 days? Not related to the captain from Sea Doo For Dad are you? http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/g...sion/11638-need-help-rogue-108-sunseeker.html
  11. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    Look on any chart, where you see the magenta "Line of demarkation" at any headland, inshore of that is where the US Inland Rules apply, offshore of that is where the COLREGS apply. You can pretty much figure that if there is land between you and the ocean, you are on Inland Waters. The name Intracoastal, also by definition implies that you are on inland waters.
  12. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

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    There are hundreds of them transiting on any given day in the migratory season. They have 16 squawking all day long. I hear them constantly from offshore, it never stops. A vessel offshore that has just been stove in on a semi-submerged container may only have a few seconds to get a transmission out. Most of your inshore guys don't even have the sense to turn their radios to low power, and only turn the volume up when they want to talk. Not knowing what they are doing does not excuse them from doing things properly.

    Personally, I expect the USCG to answer my mayday, they are the ones flying helicopters and C-130s that can respond quickest with assistance and assets when I have an emergency. They have the ability to airlift sick and injured personnel. If you are cruising down the ICW in your sailboat, you aren't in a position to render aid. You should monitor 16 and relay any maydays that go unanswered, but you are also required to monitor 13, and make your inshore calls on 13. When that big barge is coming down on them crabbing into the wind taking up the whole channel...he's on 13, they might wanna go there to make passing arrangements. All radios produced in the last 30 years have the capacity to monitor multiple channels. If they don't have one, well, it's time to crack open their wallets and get one, and keep it turned on. If they don't know how to use it, then they are too stupid to be boating. Just because a person is on a recreational boat, doesn't mean he can be a complete moron. Remember, the ICW was created and is maintained for commercial purposes, not recreational.

    Being stupid or ignorant on a boat is having a signed death warrant waiting to be executed.
  13. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Actually, those tugs monitor both 16 and 13. They generally only respond to calls on 13 because they can't be bothered with the rec. boaters. Also, while Rule 9b is interesting I've yet to find a snailboat making a Chanel impassible so you might want to check out rules 13 and 2 as well. It might save angry letters from lawyers and the CG from greeting one on their return home.
  14. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    There is no requirement for pleasure craft under 20 metres to use or monitor 13, also, multi channel scanning radios do not meet the requirements of dual channel monitoring, channnel 16 is not required to be monitored by vessels required to use bridge to bridge rta. see 47 cfr 80.
  15. CSkipR

    CSkipR Member

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    I'm always polite to the bridge tenders. The last trip I was towing a dingy with the wife and two separate bridge tenders requested that I lower my riggers and antennas. Because my wife doesn't run the boat I asked if they could raise the bridge instead because I was towing the dingy. Both requested my doc number and then reminded me it is a $25,000 fine not lowering my riggers/antennas. Thanked them and went on.
  16. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Sounds like you probably should have had them down, but that you handled it properly. Courtesy goes a long way. When I'm in an area that has a few bridges that can be cleared with my rigging down I generally leave it down since I'll only be calling short distances anyway. The one thing that caught my attention though was "Because my wife doesn't run the boat". Why? Hopefully it's not a macho or femme thing.
  17. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    while i agree that 16 should not be used for passing arrangements, unfortunately we dont' have a choice since that's the only channel monitored by 99% of boats. Yes, scanning can work but when your vhf ha stopped on 16 to listen to a 20 second transmission from the USCG to repeat warnings about a small craft advisory, by the book repeating 3 times Hailing all stations and this is USCG sector Charleston South Carolina, you're going to miss that call on 13.

    What i do is keep one or two portables clipped at the helm, monitoring 9 and 13 since they will only need to receive xmissions from nearby boats.

    now, fuel savings and time / hour savings are sorry excuses in my opinion. as I said, a properly executed minimum wake pass takes 30 to 45 seconds, not 10 minutes! I rarely pass more than 30 or 40 boats during a 10 to 12 hour day so at the most that's going go add 20 minutes to a 10 hour day. completely irrelevant in the big picture.

    Hours on the engines? give a me break... you're talking a handful of hours a year on a boat that does the round trip! that is one sorry excuse!

    and you are forgetting a major point... modern engine maintenance schedule and wear isnt' only measured on hour meters but on fuel burn, so if you run at 80% load,you're going to wear those engines and do maintenance more often. sorry excuse #2...

    as to wasting fuel, that's a myth. when you start slowing down your fuel burn comes way down as you coast from 20+ to hull speed. while your running below hull speed, you're burning about 1/3 to 1/2 per mile of what you're burning on plane. While accelerating back on plane, you are burning near cruise fuel while accelerating but unless the boat is grossly underpowered, the extra fuel will be offset by what you saved while slowing down. sorry excuse for rudeness # 3...

    I've timed it, I've looked at fuel burn while decelerating and accelerating, it doesnt add up. you dont' burn more fuel and the time wasted is minimal and a small price to pay for being courteous to others.


    As to antennas, I think i've yet to come across a bridge where i wasn't able to put the boat in neutral and get my antennas down. On this boat it means climbing on top of the skylounge and lower 3 antennas mounted on the arch. even if it's blowing 20 to 25kts, I always find enough time to do it before the boat start being blown off by the wind.


    yes, your boat should be secured while underway. but you could have passengers down below who are going up or down steps, maybe even preparing something in the galley. When that Capt Jerk comes blowing around a bend at 25kts and passes within a boat length, you may not have enough time to warn everyone on board, even if you sound 5 blasts.

    bottom line, my priority is the safety of my boat and passengers, but priority nr 2 is being courteous to others, boaters and bridge tenders alike. Enough of this "me me me myself and I" attitude that has become so prevalent on land.
  18. CSkipR

    CSkipR Member

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    She can run the boat in an emergency. I wish she wanted to learn more but she doesn't. No macho thing here.
  19. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    Well said, Pascal.
  20. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    Good to hear. Mine was the same way until the time came that I needed to hire another captain. She stepped up, got her license and was real good. Women often get bored at the wheel, but they're great for things like bridges and docking.