Fleming or Marlow Yachts?

I believe they got an exceptional deal on the Kakawi initially. But the amount actually paid is included in the court documents. Now part of it might have been as they started by ordering a smaller model, then changed along the way. They may also have incorporated all monies they've spent since into determining their listing price. There may even be some strategy of proving it's no salable. It's definitely an oddity.

As to talking to the captain at LMC, a good suggestion for anyone interested as is the suggestion to talk to Marlow. In my case, I had no interest in further pursuit so didn't feel that need. Honestly, nothing they could have possibly said to change my mind.

Meanwhile, I've never heard any negativity on Fleming. I also love reading Tony Fleming's blog and other stories over the years. Fleming appears from what I've observed, and I've never been on one, to have kept their offerings simple and just worked on perfecting those boats. As an interesting note, I couldn't find a single used Fleming newer than 2008 for sale on the used market. Now, I don't know how many they've built in those years and it may not have been many. But whatever number it is, the buyer must be happy.

If I was interested in that type boat I certainly wouldn't hesitate to purchase a Fleming.

I don't know about all of the Marlow hate here but I completely fell in love with the 80" at FLIBS. There might be buyer issues but they do seem to still sell some boats.

I know, 1st post but that boat was definitely COOL.

I fell in love with the design of Marlow boats too. But that's from reading and looking, not from owning or studying. I don't know another boat better designed for doing the loop than the 57 and 61. Had you asked me at one time what we'd end up with I probably would have bet we'd buy a Marlow 57E and a 97. But then I became aware of other factors that scared me away. Now know I'm only looking at new boats. As I said above if you find one that surveys well and does well in a sea trial then sounds worth going for. But when it comes to ordering a new one for future delivery, I personally couldn't do it.

Now understand they aren't the only manufacturer to have issues with new deliveries. Others have had long delays on occasion especially in a bad economy. Others have been sued too, but they generally avoid court and the suits aren't generally as ugly as this one. I read the innovative ideas and see the concepts and I really want to believe. There have also been a lot of issues surrounding their acquisition of Hunter. Now, none of those may be their fault. Certainly not their fault that the construction quality of Hunter had deteriorated or that the warrantees became useless.

As to selling a lot, I don't know how many they are selling today. As to the 80, I don't know if that was a special build or what as they introduced hull #1 at the show but don't show an 80 n their web site and didn't indicate one was coming in their releases.

Having delivered both Marlowe and Fleming between Florida and the Caribbean, the Fleming is a far better sea boat, IMO.

+1, in my opinion....

+1 for Fleming

I realize this is an old thread, but thought I'd chime in on the Marlow vs. Fleming question.

I, too, looked at both Marlows and Flemings, before buying a Fleming 55. Now I'm between boats, having recently sold my Fleming. So unlike current Fleming owners who might be perceived to have a vested interest in building the Fleming reputation, I have no skin in this game.

I put about 1,500 hours on my 55 over 3 years, cruising the northeast (Long Island Sound to Nantucket), Florida and the Bahamas. North-south trips were a mix of ICW travel and multi-day non-stops (eg, from Beaufort NC to Ft Lauderdale). The Fleming was rock solid in all conditions and very "user friendly". If its features match your requirements, I don't think you can do better in a semi-displacement design. I had very few problems with the boat, none significant, and, as others have said, support from Burr Yacht Sales is awesome.

Here's some real world data on cruising speed (with Cummins 500 QSC): between 9-12 kts (depending on current, wind, load etc) at 1500 rpm, burning about 11 gph. Super comfortable, quiet and economical at this speed, so that's where we ran most of the time. It's nice not to have to worry about fueling up every night in the ICW ... we once went from Coinjock to Canaveral without taking on fuel.

"Fast cruise": about 15 kts at 2300 rpm (80% load), burning about 40 gph. At WOT, I actually saw 20+ (GPS SOG) a couple times. But don't look at the fuel flow at WOT ... it's over 50 gph.

I had only 2 complaints. 1) Too much teak. It looks great, but for me, I just don't get enough pleasure out of it to warrant the maintenance. 2) I always felt the liveability of the boat would be improved, especially in the salon, with 2-3 feet more beam. Of course, that's one of those trade-offs that could impact the ride.

So now I'm thinking about an Outer Reef. I like the beam (and overall volume) and the lack of varnished teak. But I'm wondering about the ride given its apparently high center of gravity. I fear I may have been spoiled by the Fleming ride.

Enjoy the search ...

Fleming seems to have a nice size sweet spot with the 58. What think yea of that model?

BTW I'm not an owner but a big fan of big boats and really enjoy reading about them.

I think it's a big improvement over the 55 but then it's closer in size to the 65 than it is to the 55.

I’m currently in the market for the “last boat purchase” after selling my Tiara. I’ve spent a lot of time on my friends Fleming 55, including long overnight 30 hour runs in some very bad conditions. I can attest to the seaworthiness of the boat, the customer service he has received from Burr (he is the owner of a previously cruised boat)... they treat all their owners incredibly well ( tech support, customer service etc). I will be using my next purchase as a semi live aboard. In that regard the 55 Fleming doesn’t quite fit the bill due to the V berth master suite. YES the 58 Fleming ( with the mid ship master stateroom) is the boat I would choose in that perfect world, but the cost makes it a non player for me, the oldest one on the market is a 2015. I’m leaning to the 2004ish 58 Marlow as it fits the top end of my budget. I am still a bit unsettled as I’ve never been aboard a Marlow underway, knowing the ride will not be the ride I’ve had on the Fleming in some snotty conditions. I realize there are gives and takes, things you are willing to sacrifice. As a semi live aboard, the midship master suite is high on the list ( the headroom in the engine room is a plus too) but I need to hear from some Marlow owners ( past and present); the boat operating in northeast , Block Island Sound, Rhode Island Sound, Buzzards Bay, Nantucket Sound, and an annual coastal trip to FL, “WHILE” cruising at “10Kts”... Will the ride be a good ride , an improvement from a planing hull, 30,000 lb , non stabilized Tiara. The only larger boat I’ve been on was the above mentioned Fleming 55 and I feel that ride has spoiled me.” Before I make the biggest purchase of my life, I can use a bit of unbiased advice from those that have cruised and have owned boats of this size. I’ve heard about the wet ride. But will a stabilized boat of this weight slap in 4-5 foot seas? I know the Fleming does not. My past 23 years boating has been in a planing hull and I’m ready to slow it down to cruise at 10Kts. Looking for some Marlow feedback now that this thread is alive again in 2020. Thanks

You may also want to consider an Offshore, looks to have a mid -master stateroom in your size range.

https://www.**************/boats/2005/offshore-yachts-pilothouse-3648109/

Hard not to like the Offshore. Quality boats. Usually less exterior teak.

RUN from Marlow. Don't even consider them. As for Offshore, I ran a 66' quite a bit. It was a horrible hull design. In the ICW you simply could not do over 7.6 knots, no matter how much throttle you gave it. In the ocean she'd cruise at 14 knots but had to have over 10' of water underneath the keel. Build quality was good but, I wouldn't deal with it as it had some other funky ICW handling traits.

Honestly, I'd consider a 60' Hatteras MY, plenty of fuel, just as efficient at 10 knots, great sea boat and terrific build quality with no ILL handling traits.

Any particular reason against Marlow? And why can’t you cruise at 10Kts on the ICW with the Offshore, I don’t understand? I’m also considering Grand Alaskan. A friend of mine had a Hatteras without stabilizers ( he now owns a Fleming) , his ride without stabilizers on the Hatteras wasn’t that great in Block Island Sound or Buzzards Bay on choppy days. I understand the Hatteras stabilized was a good ride.

There are many reasons on Marlow. Many issues with them in regards to vibration, questionable hull designs, ethics, build quality, factory support.

Hull design on the Offshore, possibly shaft angle. It would just suck itself down in the stern. You couldn't run past 1300 rpms......at 1900 the bow would lift up like 30 degrees, it did the same speed and had breaking 6' waves directly off of the beam, but still the same speed. In the ocean it would run 14 knots at 1900 rpms......

Are you talking about the newer 60' Hatteras? Stabilized it's very good and pretty good unstabilized. It cruises 22-24 knots, has 1200 gallons of fuel, full beam master, top quality, efficient at 10 knots.......what isn't to like?

... no his was an older late 80s Hatteras

night and day difference. that's the first yacht id look at

The 66 Offshore is a wide beam design, different than the 54, 58, and 62 which are considered a good ride. Must be a design problem for the 66 poor performance.

I'm interested in this discussion as I have similar questions and intended use as Frank one day. I've been here long enough to know YF is not a fan of Marlows and understand the reasons. The 55-58 Flemming is a perennial favorite here and elsewhere. I love the look of the boat. Not wild about ER access/size. But like Frank have come to the conclusion The Flemming will never be in my price range for the age boat I would want (mid-2000s). Based on what he has described, guessing his price range is $500k-750k?

The 54 Offshore seems like the best analog to the 55 flemming. Layout, similar lines, build quality, stabilized, and slightly cheaper price. Can be had in the $500k range, less than a similar aged Flemming. Most would say the lines are not as attractive as the flemming but it's far from ugly. I have no idea on the ride.

I defer to Capt J on the Hatteras. He knows them well. Obviously great build quality and great rep for ride. But aesthetically much different from the Flemming or Offshore. And a quick YW search of 60ft Hatts later than 2000, the Motoryachts are all well north of $1M vs 1/2 of that for an Offshore and a bit more than half for a Flemming in the 55-58 range. So I'm not clear on how the Hatteras would be a good alternative. They also do not appear to be Pilothouse boats like the two mentioned. Hatts are great boats. Just wondering what the comparable model from a layout/size/price standpoint would be as a comp for the Offshore or Flemming.