Firearms onboard a yacht?

Well done Mr France.

Yes, they did. That magazine did an article about 3 months after we discussed it on YachtForums, the expected period of time to put the editorial together and go to print. This has happened repeatedly, where magazines are using the topics we discuss on YF as editorial ideas. They are also using the collective knowledge of our members to benefit their bottom line, yet they never offer you guys credit or recognition.

Here is a link to the post on LRAD (Long Range Acoustical Device), which then resulted in a private forum discussion on YF between representatives of the company and several yacht builders on YF...

http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/19391-post34.html

Carl, thanks for the link.

I suspect that non-attribution is probably pervasive across the entire spectrum of publishing. Having written web articles in the past for another industry, getting the attribution correct to honor the source was always important.

We bought one of these acoustic devices for our round the world trip - tested it on a few deckhands which was a giggle. Its not your hearing that goes - it'll knock you over. Personally I think weapons on board are asking for major trouble, a 3rd world gaol is not me idea of fun escpecially if its because a testosterone laced captain thought he was Rambo. If the risk is that high hire professionals - we had a team of ex-SAS for our trip south from Suez.

Mossberg Mariner. Nice Stainless Steel 12 Guage.

Be very ....very careful.

My Ex-Boss was an Arms Dealer. When came from a Round-the Worlder got to Greece the Customs Guys did not Know we had some stuff

Ignore this it was 15 years ago. Euro guides have changed

This is not going to add to the original thread intent, but in the late '80s I was involved in the design process of a large motor yacht for a Middle Eastern customer. Privately owned, but with the requirement to carry several pedestal mounted 50 calibre weapons and a Bofors L/60 IIRR, and house them under discreet yet easily removable fairings such that from the outside they were invisible. It was obviously an interesting challenge to incorporate the mountings and operating areas of these weapons into what was even then, a good looking yacht. Although the client was more than financially able to afford the build and up-keep of his yacht, he was able to off-set a large portion of this cost by having a vessel that could be used to help defend his country in times of war.
Sorry for the (thread) hi-jack.

My uncle just recently had a brand new yacht built and it is currently being SHIPPED to Greece from NZ as opposed to piloting it there under her own power, because it's cheaper and easier to do this way because otherwise you'd have to hire an escort, for there are pirates on the way... So yeah, there are pirates... Now my uncle's boat could probably outrun pirates but still hahaha

Guys and girls, look around at your crew. How many of those kids would you actually WANT armed and shooting if a band of pirates with AK's should up? The words "friendly fire" are coming to mind. And those of you who are adequately trained, how are those guns holding up to the salt air? You do clean and oil them every day right? Do you really want to put that gun to your shoulder and pull? If you need protection beyond non-lethal (sound, taser, rubber, etc.) hire a professional security detail who is trained for the job and knows how to deal with the governments and the threats.

Check out Real Action Paintball products. These guys make some 1:1 replicas of assult rifes into paintball and non-lethal guns.

Scotty,
You have to come to NY, LA, Chicago or Miami and ask the cops what they think about realistic looking toy guns and how they feel when they kill some kid holding one. REAL BAD IDEA. Hell you can get killed holding a cell phone. Keep your hands empty unless you are ready, willing and able to kill and don't let the weapon be seen until the blood is flowing. So I repeat, if you're entering a situation where danger lurks which can't be handled by non- leathal weapons (and not toys that look real), get a professional security detail that won't get you arrested or killed by accident. P.S. Any macho guys out there who think it will be cool to kill stop by the VA and talk to some of the guys who still see the faces of every man they killed every time they close their eyes.

Buy throw away firearms

Our solution has been to carry a couple cheap throw away ex foreign military rifles. Retired Russian and cheap other ex military rifles cost less than $100 and are quite a bit of firepower in range, penetration and intimidating appearance. If any doubt of legality in the waters we are in, they can just be dropped overboard on the other side of approaching G-boats.
They same could apply to old shotguns that you can buy for under $100 by the dozens. An old beat up shotgun is every bit as powerful, accurate and effective as a new one.
In questionable foreign waters, we basically heavily oil them, bag them and toss them in shallow waters before docking and use GPS to locate and retrieve them on departure.
On 12 gauge pumps, I recommend 12 gauge autos instead. Pumping a shotgun is slow and in panic situations you'd be surprised that people can so freeze up they can mess up with a pump.

DFWX,
Please say you're kidding! Military rejects and guns you leave sitting in salt water? Sure you don't want to throw in a couple of Saturday night specials and zip guns? You wouldn't really hold them anywhere near your body and pull the trigger would you? If you do you stand a better chance of killing yourself than anyone else. You're worried about someone fouling a pump "in a panic". You'd want a gun of any type in the hands of someone "in a panic"?

I work in the specialist security industry at all risk levels , on land you need licenses to say you can shoot a firearm and are competent to do so , also another license to carry for your work , the license to carry for work has to be granted by a prefecture in the area where you are working and also police authorisation for the period of time you are on the contract , licenses to carry for protection work is very rare in Europe only if your client is in danger of their life and proven to be so.

on open sea or on board a yacht i would have thought it would be the same and surely you have ty have crew that can handle a firearm properly if you are going to carry them , and they have obvioiusly to be competent and trained firearms specialists so that they do not shoot their own foot off.

Any of you guys going into potential threatening areas of the world should be seeking advice from the specialist security industry and in most cases you should be taking with you a couple of quality security agents who are trained to deal with any situation that may arise.

In some cases the owners or charter clients have their own potection teams who are licensed to carry and would have been granted if necessary at each port of call the authorisation to do so, therefore this solves the problem..

"surely you have to have crew that can handle a firearm properly if you are going to carry them , and they have obvioiusly to be competent and trained firearms specialists so that they do not shoot their own foot off"

Mark, I know you guys are a bit shy, but I was hoping one of you would enter this thread. I'm just an old captain with some old experience, but I don't work in your field. Your words should carry more impact. Please give your opinion of carrying BB guns that look like AK's and the like to scare off pirates and of using Russian military rejects or guns you drop overboard in salt water while in port. These are suggestions that have been brought up here earlier,

Like you said in an earlier posting do you want your crew ( who are not trained , high risk level close protection agents) getting involved in such matters -- the pirates have nothing to lose and would kill someone for a packet of cigarettes.

there is no point also in pretending you have firearms to deter the pirates , these are smart guys and they are usually well armed with modern weapons.

Replica guns and sub-standard equipment are very worrying ideas...

Prevention is the name of the game with us , confrontation is the very last option -- if there is trouble ahead we go back or to the side , if we have to enter a building with a client and we are not happy with the initial drop off point with the vehicles due to too many people or the space is too open , we either go around the block again or we go to a back-up entrance point to the building which we would have known from a reccy visit.

likewise in the yachting situation , if you are in high risk areas of the world , when in port say nothing of you plans to anyone , even people you know , its amazimg who listens in in bars , follow you back to the boats to see which is yours etc -- its a well known fact that the criminal gangs have scouts in the ports doing reccys of the yachts --- if they see a yacht with a competent looking security team they are obviously going to leave that one alone when it sets out to sea as they will not want to cross a team of guys who will be able to give them a third eye.

Back in the late 80s – early 90s my dad had a 50’ Viking that he fished from Florida to points south as far as Venezuela. His captain always had two stainless, 12 gauge shotguns on board. The only ammo on the boat was what was in these two guns. The rule was if they were about to be boarded by the authorities, the guns would go over the side. I understand there are about a dozen scattered throughout the Caribbean from this boat alone. I still have one that came with a magazine extension so it holds 7 rounds plus one in the chamber.

I’m not a lawyer and I don’t play one on TV. I didn’t stay at a Holiday Inn last night either. If you take guns into countries where they are forbidden, you’re taking great risks. If you make the decision to break the laws, you’re on your own!

Hi billgow

Lets get one thing strainght here , i work in the specialist security industry , professional highly trained , multilingual specialists mostly from military and special police force backgrounds.

If our clients require armed protection , we have to go through proper channels in the various countries/cities we work in to carry arms during a contract , if we are refused then we have to get extra local help who have authorisation.

If we are quoting contracts in high risk areas of the world and we cannot get permissiom to carry the weapons we require then we usually back out of the contract -- we do not take risk ourselves.

We never work in an environment where we are carrying weapons illegally therefore what you are saying in your post does not really apply to us.

I hope you understand a little more of what i have been talking about recently.


regards
Mark Antonio

Thanks Mark.

No doubt there is someone somewhere who feels the need to hire professional security but I’m betting the vast majority have no need or desire for such.

A thought occurred to me recently and maybe someone here can shed some light on this;

Cruise ships often have shotguns on board so their guests can shoot clay targets while at sea. How do they deal with having these on board while in ports hostile to civilian gun ownership?

I’m wondering if this may lead to an answer.