Diver left behind

BEAU, with all due respect, some of your points are exactly the line of thinking that is... not very safe, inherently. I sure hope you understand that.

You can stuff an ordinary one in pressure-resistant case, but anyways, even a special one won't make a huge part of your budget. Setting any long-range safety accidentally is quite FUBAR, but it hardly makes a legitimate argument against having one. If you tend to do that, might as well accidentally break your regulator down there, eh?

As I wrote, I felt no shame in taking tracker with myself to a mere-hours-to-cross woodland. Just as you said earlier, most of it is not extreme up until you end up the one who's empty gear packs are being found. In other words, the sense of "not extreme" and "safety" that well-developed inherently extreme sports convey to casual public is exactly a huge factor in accidents. Nothing bad could happen... right until it happens. Bikers die on half-mile ride to local market cuz "who wears helmet and back protection on a walk like that?" Actually, trouble-per-mile, those extra short rides are times more deadly then actual long-range trips - exactly because of the "it's not even serious driving" lax attitude.

No, totally wrong argument. There is proper safety procedure, and there is everything else. The moment you stop respecting the forces and elements, you put yourself in harm's way. One must fully realize that in theory, as to not get taught such a lesson on the field.

Yes. You see, that's how proper safety works - in layers. This one here is a nice early-mid layer. It doesn't abolish the need for more last-ditch, ultimate measures being available.
If you study accounts of some of the most prominent historical catastrophes (take Chernobyl or 3 Miles for example), you can see how due to various factors many and many layers failed sequentally. There are, however, far more accounts of incidents where some of those layers held up - and so they didn't earn quite a "name". You really want to do everything within reason to have your best shot at second category under worst conditions imaginable.

Definitely. Layers again. All that is good, proper and necessary. However, I don't see a fault in having last ditch distress radio beacon in case, like, divemaster can see your medallion in his hand but can't see you. I see it as another necessary layer to ensure everything possible is employed in keeping me safe.

I could've understood all those excuses 10 years ago when all that equipment went for exorbitant prices. Right now if you can afford a diving trip and accompanying hotel stay, you can sure as heck afford a shock/waterproof EPIRB. If you don't, then by ignorance or conscious choice you are skipping a critical component of your own safety package.

Oh, the "Christmas tree guy". Sure.
You know, layers again. Knowing how to properly equip and operate all the necessary stuff, and how to proceed safely with whatever activity you're at, is yet another important part.

It's not one or the other, it's one and the other. You learn your drill, you maintain your shape, you choose good company and arrange proper procedures with them, you pack proper gear of proper quality, you advance in pace with your learning - not faster - and after all that you pack a beacon if all else fails. And, sorry to put that topic up, a life insurance that's gonna keep your family running if that fails too. Afterwards you go out diving, mountain skiing, bike racing or whatever is that you fancy.

What I'm saying is, how can anyone think himself not deserving any of that? It's easy to see why not every service people are willing to go extra mile for you - but why wouldn't you want to go an extra mile for yourself, especially in matters concerning health and life - that's totally beyond me.

ArcanisX

I don't disagree, in theory, with a thing you say, but there is a difference between essential eqipment, advisable equipment and unnecessary equipment. It's all situational, in my modest opinion. I don't know a single professional diver, not alone a recreational diver, that is going to carry an EPRIB in a pressure resistant case on a 50 foot Caribbean dive because he thinks the boat might leave him behind. In the swift current off Ecuador or South Africa you bet! It would be a little like carrying a bang stick on every dive because its good protection in case of that shark attack. You carry that when you think you're jumping in with the sharks. Now a helmut while riding a bike, that's essential equipment whether your riding to the grocery store or steaming down a mountain in the ironman.

BTW. many divers have a little vial of rescue dye that you just snap like a glow stick for that rare case of the boat leaving - it fits very comfortably in the corner of you BCD pocket. It make a large flourecent green/orange circle around you in the water. Mine, fortunately, has barnacles on it - I probably should check it.

It is apparent that you are a well trained sportsman, you make a lot of sense in your arguments, but have you dived? On almost every extended dive vacation that I have been on when EPRIBs made sense to use, at least one person has set off their EPRIB accidently. In fact the Captains have the call numbers for the local recue operation right at the helm so they can call immediately to cancel the distress call before the helicopter takes off. EPRIBs are not designed for diving, and I am not aware of a manufacture that makes one for diving (but that doesn't mean they aren't made). But. there are many more compact ways to make your position in the water apparent. As for the regulator failure, they are not common, but do happen, that's why every diver will have two, - plus some will bring a pony bottle with a third on deep dives.

A srong point that is inherent in all your discussions, is that too many people don't train properly, or are too "proud" to carry, what I've called, essential and advisable squipment. Unfortuantely, just like boating!

Hi,

I think everyone is missing an important point here.

There has been some good advice from Beau and ArcanisX - but has the simple fact that while Dive operators always offer to take you diving .....

How many offer a guaranteed return journey in their terms and conditions?

K1W1

In fact its worse, they all make you sign a RELEASE. Can't even get on the boat unless its signed!

BEAU - not seriously, no - got some PADI paper in passing, but I fully realize the "extent" of my diving experience. I, however, ski seriously (incl heli-drops) and do much tracking/mountaineering/kayaking/other sort of "tourist" stuff (even climbed a little).
I can hear from you that deep pressure resistant beacons could not yet be in the best shape of technology (all of them weren't just a mere 10 years ago), and I indeed understand the concept of "too much security" where excess passive safety measure disproportionally harm normal operation or active safety - man, I've been carrying all my stuff on own shoulders for days, I'm the last one to haul an odd quarter pound, much less anything more. I've seen unimaginable amount of "safety" equipment that falls into that category. And in multi-day hikes I really got to know the kind of pals who "accidentally set off their EPRIBs"

You got my main point just right tho. It's one thing to consider your options, your preparations, your shape, team and expected conditions, and consciously decide you don't need something and/or that something could be more harm then good. It's the other to either not know, not care enough or plain rely on "what's the worst that could happen".
And i'd really take 100 false alarms over one not-working real one - even while I can totally feel for you with those... geniuses who keep managing the astonishing feat ';,,;'

I definitely don't take it upon myself to solve the former puzzle for diving in Caribbean, but, well, I just err on the safe side at all times. I actually knew that dude who fell off the skiing track, called his friends on the other side of the globe and in the end it took them like a hour to relay distress properly - which was this close to killing him. And that were Alps, he was almost in shouting range from some on-slope restaurant the whole time, not to mention hundreds of people passing almost over him in that time (he couldn't scream tho, bad injuries). Diving in the middle of the sea sounds like way more potentially dangerous conditions then that to me - no matter how "safe" diving - that's where my logic comes from.

And yeah, those RELEASEs should really alert people about who actually should be foremost concerned with their own safety... hardly ever do, tho