CAT C32 Heat Exchanger Maint & Cleaning

Hi,

I would if I were looking to buy one and I couldn't find what I wanted elsewhere.

You have complained about the Oil consumption on your engine, I was only trying to help out in order to do so I wanted a bit more info so I can find out exactly what yellow lump ( it might be white by now but slowly work its way back to yellow!)you have.

I have worked on a few of the old 3306 Gensets with a 160 ekW Output at 1500. Those puppies could get through 5 lts in a day sometimes when working very hard.

If you won't/can't or whatever reason give me any more details then all I can say is good luck.

It is often guys like you that slag off a brand in an effort to blame it for a problem that might have a lot to do with the install/operation of it not the actual thing itself.

I used to help out in the parts dept on a Saturday where I did my apprenticeship. One day a guy came in looking for a gasket for his car, he wasn't sure what gasket it was, I couldn't get some books out to show him as he was only sure it was a blue car I never found out if it was even one of the brands we represented. This discussion reminds me of this day many years ago.

If this guy is actually on a boat why is it so difficult to tell us what the data plates say about the engine and generator?

Something just doesn't fit ...

opps, yes they are.

I am not on the boat, I finished my shift as I wrote earlier. I don't even know why I would be talking about work now when I am not at work. I'm done talking about work.

Hi,

The C9 is a well known POS of note.

There have been some shocking marinization of them for gensets that have caused a huge amount of problems owing to them being done by those with little or no idea.

When you say finished your shift do you mean you are off watch or off the boat?

That is the truth. Kilo Pak did not marinize the C9 very well and the ship yard did not size the gen very well. The combined efforts have really caused some issues.

What do you mean by "The C9 is a well known POS of note" ?

I am off the boat back at home after finishing a 2 month shift.

"Kilo Pak did not marinize the C9 very well and the ship yard did not size the gen very well."

Was there no adult supervision at any stage of this project?

Pardon my being really rude but this is the sort of thing that drives owners out of boating. A bad design approved by who knows what or whom and constructed without benefit of technical oversight then operated by "engineers" who don't even know what kind of engines are installed and who think the problem is a cooler that needs cleaning.

Geesh, what kind of future does yachting have with this kind of nonsense going on?

We tried calling you for your expertise but your phone kept going straight to voice mail. Unfortunately now the whole yachting industry is going to fall apart.

You didn't need to call me, anyone with the nerve to call himself an engineer should have been able to read the dataplates and know what kind of machine he is dealing with and what the likely problems might be.

But you did get one thing right, the large yacht industry really is threatened by the sort of thing that this boat and its operation represents. I can be certain of one item in this sorry story, the owner paid for a lot more then he is getting.

I must apologise to other readers for the tirade but this really is an issue that leads to owner's bailing out. And that threatens those of us who make a living in the industry.

As far as using this site for advice, it is a wonderful resource with many very competent people who can provide assistance on most any topic and honest requests will get rapid and accurate responses. But, when someone posing as a chief engineer on a large yacht asks a question that is equivalent to "my engine is white and it isn't running good, what's wrong with it?" chances are the responses won't be gentle.

Aside from all of this pissing contest and stuff going on.

I only see 2 ways to help out your problem c4eng. Talk to CAT and find out if there is a way to detune the C9 to make less power (de-rate it), such as injector change, computer programming, etc. As long as it is turning the same RPM's the generator end shouldn't care, it would just produce less KW's before maxing out the engine HP but the engine would see a higher load factor, but that should be ok in that situation since you are only using 40% of the generator's power anyways. That seems like the easiest remedy for longevity.

The other answer is find out what to do with 100KW's of free power.


The other answer is spin it less RPM's such as 1800rpms if it is currently tuned to spin 2100rpms or something like that, but then the generator end would need attention in order to still make the same voltage and cycles. (Much more complicated).

Hi,

I was beginning to think that you might actually have some idea about some of the stuff you post about , that little line about the genset RPM has me wondering big style.

HI K1W1,

I started to respond to that one but in the spirit of being nice I cancelled it.

But on the humorous side, I did get a chuckle from the "free power" idea and the note that the electrical end might "need attention."

I had lunch with some IACS folks the other day and they commented that many of the issues that underly every component of this particular thread are what disturbs them as well.

There seems to be a lack of professionalism in almost every aspect of the owner's side of the business. Brokers don't know any better and every boatless captain is a project manager or "owner's rep." Follow this up with "engineers" who don't even know what machinery is installed and it's a real mess for the owner who gets stuck with the bills.

Who spec'd those generators and why? I mean they had to go out of their way to find them, or were they really cheap because they sat on some yard's shelf for a long time? Did someone actually think they were saving the owner money?

Now, either no one has the balls to tell the owner he got screwed and that his "engineer" can't even perform cell phone based troubleshooting and maintenance. I wonder how much this will cost before it's over.

If this was a one-off or rare event I wouldn't even say anything, or not much beyond a few rude jokes, but this is becoming so common maybe it's time to make a bunch of noise about it.

If I where to do anything, I would try and get CAT to fix what ever it is mechanically wrong spitting out the 2-3 liters of oil per day, then get the load bank installation completed. The plumbing and electrical is there, just the equipment is missing because of what ever politics happened.

Trying to get make major changes made can be quite risky I believe but not a bad idea if you knew you had the right people for the job.

The biggest problem is, and I am sure you may have experienced this in the past, trying to do a good job some times is doing a bad job. Telling the owner you need time and money to fix a brand new boat that obviously running, and when trying to explain I believe they hear "I want to take your time and money away from you and shorten your summer Med season so you will loose that time with your family and friends so I can fix a boat that is already working".
They usually don't seem to be very thankful for that and we all know there is no such thing as a perfect boat.
Come March/April some decisions will be made in what to do about the situation and in which none of those decisions will be made by me.

So you are willing to spend a fortune in small chunks until the condition can't be hidden any longer? By then you will have provided legitimate reasons for everyone else who is really responsible to wipe their hands of this affair. Don't you see any problem with that approach?

Regardless of the reputation of the C9, I think CAT is pretty far down the list of those responsible for this mess.

If it is indeed a "brand new boat" then there are some warranty issues that will only be screwed up further by your ideas of "major changes" at the owner's expense.

It is time that you showed some spark of professionalism and inform the captain that the boat has a problem far beyond your abilities so he and the owner might make an informed decision on how this and future problems will be managed.

If you honestly believe you can make a silk purse out of this sow's ear by adding more systems and wasting more fuel then you need to find another line of work.

Not my boat and not my decisions.

My blood pressure is doing fine, how's your doing? Get those ulcers checked lately?

My health is fine, thanks for your sincere concern.

"Not my boat and not my decisions."

Tell us again why the owner pays you to be on that boat?

To paraphrase Aristophanes - illness can be cured but stupid is forever.

This boat isn't a shiny new Trinity by any chance is it?

Now tell me why you always like to start problems on yacht forums?

Your not like one of these all day coffee drinking 2 pack a day smoker has been 1970's engineers who hates any one else that can walk a flight of stairs or take a deep breath with out coughing?

I do have some idea of what I am posting. Yes, I understand about cycles, generators and electricity. Including on most of the smaller generators, they run the generator engine at 2100 rpm's and it put's out 60 cycles, and say 15kw. They can also adjust the governor and turn the engine 1800rpms, and this makes the generator put out 50 cycle electricity and only 12.5kw. I also know that the number of windings in the generator end, determines how much voltage it will make and all that good stuff. There can be a way to run the generator engine less RPM's and change parts in the generator end to compensate.

However, if the engine can be detuned to make less HP, via smaller injectors and a few other ways, it can still run at the same rpm, the generator end wouldn't know the difference (same voltage and cycles), the engine would run with a higher load factor, yet the engine would only be capable of putting out less KW due to Horsepower restrictions.

He's the engineer on the boat. If he reports to the captain the problems and the captain fails to do anything about it with the owner. All the engineer can do is keep everything running.

I'm hear to come up with idea's on how to help out the guys problem. Not create a kiddie pissing contest, nor put on my tinfoil engineering hat and claim how knowledgable I am, and the poster has no business doing his job. People that are secure in themselves and their positions keep the conversation on the subject at hand. People that are INsecure, personally attack other people's knowledge and such.

There most likely is nothing wrong with the engine.

The application is wrong. A 250kw generator should have at least 200kw (or more) of power demand on it. The closer to 250kw it runs, the better it is for the engine. Lightly loading the generator is what is causing the oil consumption because it can't compensate enough with the fuel to run clean enough.

Do you have one of those generators on your boat? Please tell us more about it.

Yeah, like taking a 3.43 pole rotor out of the spares box and bolting it on with some other "stuff" right?

No, you got that a bit skewed, people who know what they are talking about and are very confident in their own knowledge and experience don't have much sympathy for pseudo engineers whose incompetence wastes the owner's money. The red flags were flying high on this thread from the beginning and finally proved very true. And that my captain friend, is keeping this conversation very pointedly on the subject.