Carver 444 - Compare Data

I would first put your orginal props back on after you have them recondition. You should have your tach check out and make sure they read the correct rpm. I can't see how boat test is wrong your yacht is really a 396 model with the cockpit extension on it. It is not like the the 440 wich is a full 44 foot yacht and heavier yacht with smaller diesels.

I hope your second sentence doesn't get lost in the mix. Never, Never, Never take a surveyor on the broker's recommendation. Get your own. He may end up being one on the broker's recommend list, but find him on your own so there's no conflict of interest.

How true - unfortunately, our Industry has a culture of buyers' surveyors or seller's surveyor's, much like the Home Appraisal Industry.

It is always a buyer beware situation, but that is just water under the bridge for many of us....

I don't necessarily find this to be true. I mainly work with very good brokers, and many of them, that are indeed looking out for their clients best interests. They usually will not recommend one surveyor but give the buyer several surveyors to choose from that are good surveyors. The brokers I generally work for have been selling yachts for decades and they want their buyer to be happy and well, to buy more boats down the road. However, I do know that there are some brokers that aren't reputable, would recommend surveyors that either aren't that knowledgable or reputable as well.

Hi,

I have an 04 444 with the TAMD63P volvos, these are 2800 rpm motors. It came from Carver with 24X29 props. These are ACME Nibral props which is probably the same prop make you have but different size. I re-pitched to 24X28 because I was barely making 2800rpm with all tanks and water full with two adults in 2 - 3 footers. By barely I mean I was at 2800 rpm at beginning of season and would end up at 2760 or so by the end. So the props Carver put on were okay but borderline for overloading motors. Goal was to be at least 2850 at beginning of season. You will loose rpms as the season goes on...

Take no offense to any of this, been there, done that and these are the facts.

You are riding blind right now. You need to install EGT (pyrometers) and Boost (turbo) gauges on your bridge so that you can monitor the load of your motors. Making WOT at the dock means nothing, you need to make minimum 50rpm over rated WOT under load. If you are not making this you will be burning a piston or exhaust valve down the road. I recommend you join boatdiesel and start reading, ask questions. Overload for a diesel engine is a guaranteed death. Going from 24X30 to 24X25 is way too big of a drop, something is wrong fuel or air related on those motors. If you have the same transmissions I do which are ZF 280-1A and your reduction is 2:227:1, This equates to about a 60 rpm drop for each 1" in propeller for the size prop I had. You won't be far off from this. 5" of pitch is way too much, that's at least 300 rpms.

My boat cruises at 17-18 knots at 2400rpm in 6 - 9 feet of water. I'm in NJ. WOT is about 21.

Read this PDF many times and follow this man's instructions to the law, he knows his stuff. Don't waste any money on anything without going through this process.

http://www.sbmar.com/Maintenance/PDF/Low-Power-Troubleshooting.pdf

You say motors don't smoke so it sounds like you are not getting enough fuel. Do you have vaccum gauges on your racors? What is the vacuum? The mechanic should have checked all of these things. I can see 1" or 2" of pitch reduction but 5" is not right. Did he check fuel pressure right before injection pump?

After you install boost and pyro gauges, go on a run and see where you are in comparison to the book data for your Cummins 370s. You could have air leakage at the turbo. How clean is your fuel? Did any water ever go through the injectors?

Ask questions but do not continue running your boat that way or you'll be putting motors in it shortly...
Diesels will run forever but not in an overload condition.

Cap, no offense here but something was wrong with motors on the boat you ran also. I have no problem cruising at 17-18 knots in about 3'. There's also nothing wrong with auxilary fuel tanks because I fill mine to the brim and there is no smell. Fuel must have been leaking somewhere and should have been noticeable in the bilge. He also said he was only getting 2500 rps WOT so that's significantly under manufactures rating and points to engine. He should be making at least 3300 rpm WOT no load and he's not...

No, something is wrong, your boat should perform closer to factory specs, mine does.

I don't have vents on side of hull, they are on the cap itself. Check your bilge in lazarette especially on top of fuel senders to see that you're not getting any seepage.

He's not getting this at WOT...

I go on plane in 6' - 7' of water with no problems at all.

The boat is heavier then the 396 and the waterline is longer. Inside it's the same boat but performs very different. Hull speed is also higher...

If he has the same tachs as me they are AETNA Digital tacks which are accurate to 1 rpm. I checked mine with a photo tack and they are dead on over the entire rpm range.

No offense taken. There was a lot wrong with those motors. Poor performance was just one of many problems. From starters to fuel solenoids to more fuel solenoids, failure to start to failure to shut down. She didn't help Carver's reputation. DK how you do those speeds in 3' seas unless you're running with them or they're just rollers. I found that boat handled very poorly. The fuel smell was only noticed on one occasion when we had someone sleeping on board after fueling(otherwise nobody slept on board that boat. There was no leak, but we hadn't touched those tanks since fueling when it was noticed. When we burned off some fuel we lost the smell. I suspected a bad fuel neck.

I pretty much run with the tabs all the way down - factory tabs. If I let up I see a decrease in speed. On a head on 20 - 25 knot wind in 2 - 3' I might see 16.8 knots or so but for the most part I'm right around 17 knots 400 off the top. Of course I let tabs up on following seas but it doesn't seem to make too much difference.

Maybe the torque curve is different on the Cummins, not sure. I have heard the contrary though that the boat with the 370 cummins is faster, 200 rpm more those motors. So I'm hard pressed to figure out why he can't get the performance I get.

I agree it does push the water a bit but like you said the accommodations are nice and if you take it for what it is it at least for us it performs well. It's not like I'm running to the Canyons every weekend or I'd have a different boat designed for offshore.

At the end of the day, the woman loves it and when the woman is happy the man is happy

It has been good to us for how we use it.

Cap,

Thinking more about your poor handling problem if you were cruising at 12 - 13 knots like you said was normal I could see it handling poor in anything other than flat water. At those speeds that boat is pushing water and not fully on plane. For me it's hull speed, around 8 knots or right up to 17 knots. Anything in between is no good. It sounds like the motors never ran right...

Fuel consumption must have been bad too, probably > 40gph. I'm right around 28gph at cruise fully loaded with fuel and water most of the time.

Hugo

Are you sure your linkage is allowing you to make full throttle? I have mechanical linkage, is yours mechanical or electronic? I have heard of another guy having a problem with this. He had electronic controls and that was causing a problem...

When buying a yacht you got a surveyor to check it out and tell you what was wrong. He did and there was a problem with the speed of the boat. For some reason you accepted the yacht with problems with the speed of the yacht. That was a big mistake because the time you get this resolved you are spending alot of money. You should of ask the Question should I buy this carver with poor performance with engine problems before buying. I would think everyone here would of told you no not till the problems where fixed. Good luck in your repairs and hope you will find the problem. You learned a good lesson with this.

In our case there was no surveyor as the owner bought her new and I wasn't involved with them yet. Actually though you may be putting a bit too much faith in the surveyor. They'll check that the motor is reaching rated RPM's, and they'll note the speed, but few I've dealt with would know the speed the factory claims the boat will make.

I have a 2005 44 with Volvos , my port engine tachs out at 2550 rpm my starboard at 2250 rpm and my top speed is 13 knots . With no load (neutral) the stbd side goes up to 2700 , port to 2600 . Boat starts and runs great with no visible smoke at all but I do have exhaust film on the stbd side hull after a brief run with low to wot mix . Where do I start . Oh my props are 24" 4 blade , pitch 29 .

First make sure your tachs are accurate, if Aetna digital probably okay. You’re problem starts at no load, should be over 3,000, you’re way under that. Fuel or air problem there if tachs are accurate. You will be over propped with those props for sure but address no load rpm first because that’s way off.
I ended up with 24x27 #6 cup or .90 thousands of cup. Took several years to figure out sweet spot. The props need cup on this boat.