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Burger 80 - Work in Progress

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by PPD, Aug 24, 2023.

  1. SplashFl

    SplashFl Senior Member

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    S. Florida _ Bertram 46
    And I thought it was my eyes. ;)
  2. Ward

    Ward Senior Member

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    This is off-topic, but about the holes in the dock: those look like floats made of concrete pods joined with wood waler boards, similar to the docks at a couple of marinas I'm familiar with. If they are similar, then the pods have little diagonal cut-outs on the corners that end up making a small "hole" but it's not big enough to get a foot into. You can sort of see them in this picture:

    dock.jpg
  3. PPD

    PPD Member

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    So the only issue we experience was that the autopilot/steering kept blowing fuses (4 times). Not sure why, but definitely something that needs to be addressed.

    As far as fuel stats: total tankage is about 3400 gallons
    1. started with about 2300 gallons - 1000 gallons in the auxilary tanks, 700 gallons in the aft tank, 600 gallons in fwd tank
    2. added 500 gallons in Titusville
    3. added 500 gallons at Cobbs Marina in VA
    4. completed the trip with empty aux tanks, 400 gallons in the aft tank, and 100 in the fwd tank
    6. used 2800 gallons total
    5. ran around 1200-1300 rpm at about 8-9.5 knots most of the trip, covered about 1600 NM
    Barry Jones likes this.
  4. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    0.57 miles per gallon.
    I assume with a gen-set running?
    Doing better than our 58 x 18 Bertram.
  5. PPD

    PPD Member

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    yeah, not too bad with the naturals and 1 gennie. When we ran inside I think we were probably averaging 7kts, but we ran outside from Panama City to the Okeechobee waterway, then inside up to Titusville. Outside to Beaufort. Inside up to VA, then outside up to LI sound. I haven’t sat down with the log yet to do all the math, but it’s a hood overview of the trip.

    also - got in touch with Steve at Flagship on the HVAC. Very helpful and knowledgeable. I’ll be going with a two chiller system and 7 fan coil units. All for a reasonable price.

    cleaned out the fwd bilge and found 50 years of spare parts. Over a hundred impellers, bins of gaskets, spare gauges, on and on. I don’t have enough room on the boat to store it all!

    we are doing the demo in the crew quarters now.
  6. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    When I converted my boat to chillers about 6 years ago now, Steve was VERY helpful guiding me thru the process answering every question about plumbing the loop. Their stuff is really well Made and all parts are off the shelf. No fancy electronics.

    Since then I ve bought 7 or 8 air handlers to replace the aging Crapairs on the 110 I run
  7. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    I'm 68 feet, and I have 6 air handlers on the main deck. Two in the aft salon, two in main salon, one in the galley, and one in the wheel house. The sum of the 6 units is close to 9 tons of BTU. Having used her both in the NE as well as the Bahamas, I wouldn't subtract a single ton if I had to do it over again.

    I have five staterooms below, each with their own air handler. There is also one in the ER. Total of 12 air handlers, some of which share the same control board and thermostat in the salons.
  8. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    That’s the beauty of chillers. You can have the full capabilities in summer when it’s hot but at night or in winter you don’t have to run all chillers.

    I have two 3 tons chillers on my 53 but in winter I just run a single chillers. Starting early may I ll have to run both here in miami till October.
  9. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    Agreed. Im running 2 x 5, but mostly just one. I only energize #2 if the need is recognized. The chiller tonnage can be outmatched by the air handler tonnage, the beauty of chillers.
  10. DOCKMASTER

    DOCKMASTER Senior Member

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    also - got in touch with Steve at Flagship on the HVAC. Very helpful and knowledgeable. I’ll be going with a two chiller system and 7 fan coil units. All for a reasonable price.


    Curious what they recommended for the heat side? Are you just planning to do the reverse cycle on the chillers? Or are you adding some additional heat in the piping loop?
  11. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    My experience, best outcome is heat pump setup for most conditions. Especially for a glass boat. I'm relying on a twin 12kw heat strip setup in the loop when I need to get a boost of heat, especially in the aluminum hull. If I found I needed the extra heat more often I might be tempted to set up a heat exchange system with a diesel furnace.
  12. DOCKMASTER

    DOCKMASTER Senior Member

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    I’m also curious what @PPD got for a recommendation from Flagship given he will be doing a new installation and operates in colder waters. I don’t know if the air handlers would stand up to the high temps from a diesel fired boiler being in line. I explored this or an electric element in line and was told my air handlers were not rated for the added heat. I know some are.
  13. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    Key on heat is to set the temp low. The water doesn't need to be scalding. 20 degrees is the temp delta that encourages the heat exchange to be meaningful. So that's 20 degrees above your desired temp. 70 degrees? You need 90. That isn't going to hurt anything...no, you don't need to be at the precipice of steam here...
  14. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    I ve been wondering about heat as well since whenever we decide to retire we ll probably move the boat to TN where we be bought land to build. My flagship system doesn’t have reverse cycle or heat strips

    I was wondering if it would be feasible to use one or two water heaters in the closed loop to generate heat. Only need about 90F water so that’s well within the capabilities of a water heater, the question how many gallons we d need to keep the loop at 90F

    what am I missing ?
  15. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I was about to recommend sending one of your chilling stations back for reversing valve upgrade.
    Then;
    Water heaters/heat exchanger on the loop vs reverse cycle station.
    Hummm.
    Interesting thought.

    Next question, Would your controls interface to a water heater? Or any heat option? Or new controls needed?
  16. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    you’d set the water heaters to maintain a specific loop temperature. The chillers would be turned off. The air handlers would do the work supplied by the glycol loop. Loop pump would keep running. KISS.
  17. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    I went to 2 Force 10 stainless 20 gal water heaters. They’re more effective than a household 40 and need less power. Plus they have the internal heat loop that can share heating with your genny. Nice setup perhaps.

    I think the heater volume might do the trick. Worth a shot for sure. It consumes some space but could be the trick.
  18. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Basically the water heaters would replace the chillers when heat is needed so the loop temp control would be handled by the water heaters. Each air handler would then regulate room Temp as they do normally
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2024
  19. DOCKMASTER

    DOCKMASTER Senior Member

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    I don't think typical water heaters recover fast enough to be used in a heat loop. I guess it's all a matter of how quickly the air handlers will pull heat out and then if the water heaters can keep up. Domestic water heaters are designed to heat a volume of water over time, not continuosly heat. Maybe those on demand, tankless units might work?

    My diesel fired system runs way hotter than 90 degrees or 20 degrees above ambient. If memory serves, I think it maintains about 160 degrees in the piping loop. If you are not blowing air above body temp (about 100) it will feel like a cold breeze. I personally don't like it when air that is supposed to be heating does not feel warm.
  20. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    My experience aboard with my electric heat cylinders for the loop, I set the water temp for the loop to run around 90 degrees. In fact I think one of the two 12KW devices turns off at 90, and the second works to keep the loop between 90 and perhaps 100. Most often only one engages once I reach operating temp in the loop. So the water is typically 85 to 95 during heat requirements. But if the room is 50 0r 60 degrees, that 90 degree transaction brings the room to 68-70 very quickly and takes the edge off the chill. Obviously all of this is personal preference. I introduced my comment solely based on the concept of "being too hot for the chillers". I don't think the chillers would be upset by seeing the loop heated to, say, 120.

    I like diesel systems, especially on the aluminum boat where they can really warm the engine iron. If I went diesel I'd certainly introduce a heat exchange manifold to manage the hot water as well as the overall ER environment. I'd certainly interact the furnace with the loop to obtain radiant heat in the living areas. Nothing drives me sideways (weather-wise) like dry heat from an electric heat strip or flame.