Bertram Sportfish Yachts Coming Back???

But you make a good point. If Cabo was still in the game, I don't think Bertram would have had a chance in hell to get off the ground.

The Bertram 35 is a different kettle to any boat Cabo ever did.

What is very interesting though in the Bertram 35 reborn 31 debate was how quick Viking jumped on the tooling of the 37 Billfish to compete in this segment.
Now if someone has been very clever for the past two decades (may be even more) in building production sport-fishing boats that was Viking.
I think we can all agree they missed very few beats.
The fact that they jumped so fast to this, I do not know I do not live in the USA. But I think they are seeing some important interest to do this.
Especially since I think Viking was very well covered in offering an entry level quality sportfish platform with the 42 series.

The Viking Billfish is an interesting move. Obviously, they feel there's a demand. I think the SF people got so tied up going bigger that there was a smaller market being ignored. They might say center consoles killed it and they couldn't compete, but I think there are a lot of people who don't want center consoles, want more boat around them, want accommodations. I think the market is missing a niche in motor yachts as well. Everyone doesn't want bigger.

I agree with your sentiments and the motoryachts. Viking is just exploding with sizes and model lines. They build SF from 42'-92', the 75' MY and now a 85' MY and 37' SF. I'm wondering why they even bothered buying Post's mold unless it was just for quickness instead of just building their own design.
I think a lot of people went center consoles instead of the small SF. Now they've had the big fast CC and realize most of the time they don't want to cruise faster than 30 knots and it's kind of nice to have a place to get out of the rain or eat lunch comfortably in air conditioning. OR, for their crew to sleep in, while delivering it somewhere. Even if you're running a big CC to the Bahamas and renting a cottage, it's a pain in the rear storing the rods in a secure place, keeping bait iced, etc. You can leave all this stuff inside of something like the 35' Bertram locked up and secure instead of trekking it on and off of the boat.

Cabo filled that niche pretty well, remember they were building over 150 boats a year in that segment not all that long ago and one day Versa decides to just shut them down. The issue was build efficiency, which was the reason they lost profitability. They were profitable in 2012 posting a net profit of $13 million in a down market, before Brunswick moved them to New Bern. So I could see 100+ sportfish boats being sold by other builders to fill the niche Cabo left behind. In their time, they were the highest quality SF builder in their size range 32'-52' without a doubt.

Note too that Viking did buy Ocean's molds and they did have a 37' Billfish at one time. Don't know if that is being used or not.

I agree for the reasons you stated above that it's a natural progression for owners in the exploding CC market to eventually want more creature comforts. There's only so many features you can cram into a CC.

It could very well bring a demand cycle back into smaller convertibles. There is no doubt they can offer creature comforts and equipment that would be impossible on a CC. The question is whether they can be built and sold at a cost that can both support the builder and attract the buyer.

I'm talking about real numbers being built and sold. Not just a few boats from a boutique yard.

Why, what are the differences?

I assume you mean the purchase of the Ocean Tooling for the 37 Billfish, probably the only thing Ocean had of value that did not create product overlap?

At $850K - $1MIL fully loaded for the Bertram 35, they will not be getting a lot of 34 - 36' CC buyers who are looking for creature comforts. Ultimate creature comfort comes with LOA, and at those prices the used SF market will draw a CC guy into a used more comfortable 50' - 60' SF.

Hatteras never wanted Cabo, Brunswick tried to show growth to their stockholders through acquisition instead of organic growth within the organization. They then proceeded to dump them on Hatteras, as they were trying to run it with Bowling Ball and Fitness execs. Doomed from the start, and the Hatteras boys had no interest in floating Cabo while they were and have been fighting for their own financial lives. Plus you completely ignore the dynamics of the market shift to outboards and the new buyers associated with them. Something overlooked by the conventional builders, but not by the Contender/Yellowfin/SeaVee/Regulator crowd. The ones that created their own organic growth without buying other companies in this period.

The Bertram 35 is an interpretation of a classic, the Bertram 31.
A Cabo 36 is a sportfishing machine in its own right.
Anything on the Cabo was designed for the sportfisherman, the Bertram is more designed to strike a posse and have the looks of a returned classic.

Half the sales (possibly more) of the Bertram 35 will be for those who want a cool boat to show off, and instead buying a Hinckley picnic boat buy the 35.
Most will have a day boat use with occasional short cruises.

The Cabo 35 became the new classic of its era. And while the new 35 Bertram draws its heritage from the 31, I would not put too much stock in the classic / new classic flavor of the Bertram. OK for the product launch, gets the Bertram faithfuls appetite wetted, and they will certainly move forward and away from the past as they carve out there own market share. Modern. Stylish. Features. Performance. Think more along the lines of "this is not your fathers Buick" slogan - the future is brighter, etc.

Any 35' SF is basically a day boat, as there is only so much you can put into that amount of length. More shelter than a CC, someplace nice to sit and sleep, limited range. But just like the Bertram 31, you saw the Cabo 35 showing up as a workhorse in the charter fishing markets around the world. Very Bertram-esque indeed.

Not the analogy I would use. It was "not your father's Oldsmobile" and the year it was used over 50% of the Oldsmobile dealers lost business, ultimately starting the downhill run until the brand was eliminated.

If nothing else, the website is cool. It really is a nice looking boat. For my taste, better looking than the CC's and with yellow fin asking over $ 600,000, it might make a man think more seriously about the Bert.
I'd also prefer inboards to outboards but that's just my age showing.

That's why I used Buick

Well, it, like all boat choices is a matter of personal taste. I never had any romantic relationship with Bertram like some here. The boat doesn't appeal to me. CC's do, but not as a cruising boat, and certainly not for overnight cruises. So, we have a small Riva for when it's just the two of us and prefer that over a CC (we have a CC for our crew to use). So, I understand the preference for a boat with an indoors and a greater area than a CC. Therefore, I understand the appeal of the Bertram vs. the CC even though Bertram still wouldn't be my choice. I don't like the look but that's simply taste and I see it as a good option for those who do.

Yes I meant Viking buying the 37' molds from Ocean.

You've got the Hatteras/Cabo relationship all backwards. Brunswick did not want to renew the expiring lease on the Cabo factory in Adelanto,CA with the former owners of Cabo. Hatteras did not make a profit in 2012. Cabo DID turn a NET profit of $12 million in 2012. Hatteras production line was at 30% capacity and Cabo's at 40% in 2012. The Adelanto factory was VERY efficient, it took on average 7500 man hours to build a 40' Cabo express in Adelanto, the BEST New Bern could build a 40' Cabo express took 11,500 man hours. Now can you see why Cabo didn't post a profit for 2013 or 2014? The inefficiency of the Hatteras Factory is the issue. Now, the 44' Cabo loaded sold for $1.2 million new back then, the loaded 45' Hatteras EX introduced a little over a year later sells for $2 million, now see why they can suddenly sell virtually the same boat and turn a profit with their inefficiency? It's the same hull mold. Hatteras doesn't use the Cabo inner liners for the engine room, lazarette, salon area saving weight and cost there. They did change the rub rail up a little bit.

Other members in this thread that have spent time at the factory will reiterate the same thing about their efficiency. I don't want to call the person out that I'm thinking of, but he can chime in if he chooses to.

Now compare the price of the loaded Bertram 35' to a loaded 39' Seavee, Yellowfin, or similar and the price is not much higher. Now with the Bertram you can run to the Bahamas with all of your FROZEN bait in a freezer, food in a refrigerator, rods that are in a locked cabin, a place to sleep for 1-2 people running the boat over, plus anything else you want to pack on, watermaker, and now the family can fly into any small island in the Bahamas and fish for a week or two, while renting a cottage/house, but all your fishing/diving stuff is self contained and dry on the boat for weeks if you choose to.

First, a caveat, that my background is manufacturing companies and I'm very much a stickler for efficient processes and production. The difference between very successful companies in my industry and those not successful was typically 95% efficiency vs. 80-85%. Good industrial engineering was a key to profits. So, I don't know that the average person would see the Hatteras factory as I did and improvements may have been made since I saw it. Their quality is very good. I like their boats. However, any wait time in the process is very costly. If the next job can't be done, waiting on parts or material or waiting on another department to finish a previous step that's inefficient and costly. Also, note, that I had previously seen a very efficient group of factories in Westport.

I can only speculate that if Cabo took that much less man hours than Hatteras they had a very efficient plant. While modern equipment can certainly help reduce manhours, the easiest way is to eliminate any wasted time.

I never saw it but I heard the Bayliner plant in Arlington, WA was extremely efficient and when Brunswick closed it, they struggled to achieve the same costs on Meridians. Yet, the Sea Ray factory in Venore, TN is very efficient.

An efficient, well oiled manufacturing machine will deliver their product, even if it's boats, on time, as originally quoted. I imagine Hatteras is no different than the majority of boat builders, but the goal is always to be better than others.

One thing that often happens is with cut backs, efficiency suffers, first by inconsistent work flow and second by reduced industrial engineering effort. With their sales doing well today, perhaps that's benefited them with reduced non-productive time.

Ah, yes, we will now tackle the boat manufacturing efficiency rates. I won't touch the numbers, as you have to define what you are measuring first.

J - I have been to the Cabo plant quite a few times, in the beginning days, in their hey day, and right before they sold. As well as all the other boat builders in Southern California. I have a pretty good idea of how things went on there and know many who were employed by them.

I have been to the Hatteras plant many times since 2008. Been to Westport/Port Angeles/Delta/Crescent/Christenson/Nordlund/Northcoast etc. I have seen all SR plants, up close and personal.

Adelanto just had a better overall production line work ethic and motivation to the owners. Loyalty. Period. And 7500 hours to build to build a 40' Express is a an easy pace for any good production crew, if you are motivated. Hatteras did not want anything to do with the California product. They were 'voluntold" to absorb it into their work place. It is a cultural thing. They could not re-capture that same level of motivation. As the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. They have over-thought and over-engineered the Cabo product to reflect the bigger Hatteras mentality and it is not a great fit.

With regards to the most efficient production frp powerboat plant in the US, the now closed Sea Ray Merritt Island plant was by far and away number 1 in production for the 30' - 40' range. Probably in the world. But it fed into the Brunswick overcapacity global study and was dealt the death blow as they determined that US boatbuilding would not make it back to pre-recession levels during their watch.

We had the best employees on the planet and we treated them like family. We respected our employees and in return they gave it 110% every single day; thats how it worked. I won't comment on how it was after we sold but let's just say it wasn't the same.

To get back to the original post, I really hope Bertram finds success with their 35. It sure will be interesting to see how it does with the market the way it is.

Does anyone have performance specs on the new 35? Did it ever see 40 knots?

That I don't know. I did see it coming in Port Everglades from a sea trial right after the FLBS and it was 2-3' or 2-4' outside. The boat was dry as a bone and I didn't see any salt on it anywhere, so appears to be a dry boat.