Bertram Closing Merritt Island Facility?

It's become popular to blame all the Bertram problems on Ferretti and they deserve their part, but seems they inherited some issues too. To me buying Bertram was an illogical business decision. You have all your manufacturing in Italy and now you have one SF builder in Florida. A business you know nothing about in a country that you're not familiar with manufacturing in and distant from your core group.

You wonder sometimes if they had a different plan and just got off it or had no plan or was the way they ran things really their plan.

Not exactly. When Feretti bought Bertram, the Italians were buying A LOT of US built sportfish. Cabo and Hatteras were shipping almost a few dozen boats each over there a year. Feretti's plan was to capture part of that market, and they bought Bertram and in some aspects Italianized them. Then that's when ALL of the structural issues occurred. Bertram contracted AA Mabru (their air conditioning sub-contracter) to lay up all the hulls.....ohhh they did by mixing way too much accelerator in the resin which made them layup fast, but also made them very brittle....... I know of 2 dozen boats that either came apart or were coming apart. At first they got away with sweeping them under the carpet, then everyone started hearing about them all.

Captain J, one thing for sure, nothing is posted about Bertram that you’re not soon bashing. Enough already, you have made your point dozens of times before. You have an axe to grind, and your credibility sucks! Do a search of your own previous comments, now you’re up to “two dozen known separations”. The only one, and although they may be a few more, that made this site among others, was “Certifiable”. In today’s world of internet, there would surely be pictures and proof of more. OK, your wet dream has come true, Bertram is busted. At the same time, there are a LOT out there that have been great boats, mine included. Ray Charles can see through your intentions. Go ahead, cry and tell us about your background, or simply provide proof (because Lord knows you would have taken pictures or collected evidence, and savored the moment) of the other or 20 to 25 failures. I call BS, now step up without the rhetoric, or let it die.

Sorry, I have to disagree with you. Capt J has nothing but credibility. He's run more kinds of boats than you'll ever be aboard. And it's not a wet dream for Bertram's demise. It's fact...Bertram had been treading water for decades. And how many people who shelled out millions for a Bertram, and later found out they owned an inferior product? You think they are going to step up to the plate and claim they were taken by a nice interior and a name that used to mean something? I don't think so scooter. Bertram, Ocean, Azimut...we here at YF don't discriminate. I understand your passion about Bertram's especially as an Owner. But it is what it is. Capt J is a very passionate man, as are a very large percentage of YF members, he speaks of what he knows. Capt J, just as you are, are entitled to voice an opinion. You couldn't give me an Ocean...I've seen and heard was too much about them to trust the Brand. That's my opinion. And last time I checked we still have a right of free speech not only in this Country, but here at YF as well. And you being a member since 2010, and this being only your 10th post, really doesn't give you the right to take pot shots at a Senior member. Yes we know you own a Bertram and it's a flawless boat and your proud of that. Congratulations, you got a good one. You're a lucky man.

The simple point I was making, is he appears to be exaggerating his previous comments. Just where is the documented proof of "two dozen separations", Is that request unreasonable? If he has facts, by all means share them, and I will 100% admit my error and apologize. "Separation" is a serious issue, which is also a safety concern, I would like to know more.

Absent that, I stand by my stance of his credibility.

I do not dispute that both Bertram and Ferretti have by their recent actions become a disgrace to the owners and the industry, and that is very unfortunate.

However, to exaggerate an already unfortunate situation is not in the best interest of anyone. I did not take a pot shot, I stated what I believe to be a valid point, and although I don't post often, I believe this is a great forum, and such comments should be validated, and I would hope in the spirit of "fairness", you can understand my position.

Unfortunately there is some knowledge that can't be proven because things aren't made public. Here's the little bit I know. At their best, Bertram was an incredible boat, that some of you are lucky enough to have their best and have great Bertram's.

However, there are quite a few instances of significant problems. Talk to any shipyard in South Florida and you'll hear the stories. I've talked to other captains and heard them. Whether it's 5 boats or 10 boats or 100 boats (which I don't think it is) they had problems. Also, anytime one moves their manufacturing more issues may develop short term. New employees learning their jobs.

Does Capt J have a more negative view toward them than some? Yes. Partly from more exposure and involvement in the industry and just how much he circulates. Are some stories he's heard probably exaggerated? Yes. But he also loves SF more than anything and he hates what has become of Cabo and he regularly runs many SF's. He certainly has seen more of them than I have or ever plan to.

Fact is Bertram had some issues. Now it's probably not those issues that led to their demise. It's a Chinese owned company located in Italy owning a small boat brand (and yes compared to most of their brands, Bertram was very small) in South Florida. And on top of that this brand lacked any special market strength at this time and didn't fit at all with the rest of their business. So new ownership reviews financials, says this makes no sense. Ferretti hasn't disgraced the industry by shutting down Bertram. They've made a prudent business decision. Then they sold the name. If you'd wanted to purchase and save Bertram you could have. Rest assured there were such discussions with many and none of them wanted it. Bertram's time had run and I feel for those who loved the brand. Oldsmobile and Pontiac are gone. Post sits idle or dead, depending on your belief.

I'm honestly far more bothered by the closing of Cabo. That's one that just shouldn't have happened. But Versa owns them and it's Versa's right to do so. I imagine that brand could easily be bought although perhaps not some of the molds they want to reuse and brand Hatteras. I'm still not happy when Brunswick decided to end Bayliner MY's and rebrand them Meridian just so they could raise the price.

To us, these boats may be things we fall in love with. But ultimately these are businesses. And businesses answer to owners who answer to stockholders. Is the apparent death of Bertram bad for the industry. Perhaps not. Spread that business to others and perhaps it saves someone else. Many of the brands I grew up around on the lake are long gone and others totally changed. Brands that remain like Chris Craft have no similarity to the old ones. There are a lot of boat companies out there today struggling and their survival in doubt. To my knowledge Ferretti didn't leave a bunch of debts behind, they didn't declare bankruptcy on Bertram. I find the Northern and Christensen situations far more disturbing with boats that have been mostly or all paid for locked up in the premises and tons of people including employees left hanging and most owed money.

The facts are very simple.

1. Bertram made some good boats
2. Bertram made some bad boats.
3. Bertram lost money.
4. Ferretti closed Bertram.
5. Ferretti sold Bertram.

The true number of Bertrams that have had serious structural issues. Either delaminated sections of the hull, or broke all of the tabbing from the stringers to the bulkheads, or oil-canned where the stringers started moving within the hull is right around 24 boats that I know of. Bertram swept MANY of them under the rug and had them fixed on the down low. I can compile a list of them and the names of the boats, but do you really think that would be fair to the owners who own them and may possibly want to sell them in the future? Are the owners supposed to disclose major issues when they sell a boat, yes. Will they, who knows. Since I do not know who you are, and the information is a very touchy subject, I will list the ones that I can without possibly harming current boats.

63' SF Hull #1, on it's maiden seatrial the port engine broke free part/most of the stringers in the engine room and the engine bed it was mounted to and was laying in the aisle.
63' Certifiable with the hull side tearing off that you know about, was a warranty boat to replace
57' Certifiable that broke all of the stringers free from the bulkheads.
63' SF in North Carolina that sank, broke apart in numerous places including the transom falling off, foredeck peeling off and etc in a very moderate sea-state. (bertram said it hit buoy)
57' "Unlucky four us" it too broke all of the stringers from the bulkheads and all of the tabbing loose. It spent 6 months getting repaired.
63' Bertram SF that is currently in Australia getting fixed by dealer for bulkheads all breaking loose from the tabbing.
63' Reel Wheels also had all bulkheads breaking loose from stringers.
57' Peeled 20' of the bottom off (fiberglass right off, and just exposed coring) 1/3 of the way back from the bow on it's way to San Juan, made it to San Juan was fixed. Cannot say the name or owner on this one.

There's 8 that aren't currently for sale or owned by the same owners or etc. The other ones cannot currently be named at this current time. However if you don't believe me, start calling yards around here..(Miami/Fort Lauderdale area)...Marinamax/associated, Apex Marine, Glasstech, Merritt's, Barry Brown Marine, and a few others all fixed some of them or were the places they were taken to first.

I speak what I speak about Bertram because it is the truth. Even the old ones all had issues with soft decks when they were 10 years old or less a lot of times. Issues with electrical. Glasstech became Millionaires just making new replacement cockpit decks for Bertrams that didn't rot.

I think you said it well. There are many of you who love them, who have dealt with all the problems you encountered, who are fully aware of their issues, but still think there's nothing like them. And that's great. It's like when you've been with someone for years and know every one of their negatives but love them more each year.

I'll never understand the love of Posts that drives people to go through what they do restoring them. But I sure admire the passion.

If we all liked the same boats it would be boring. Our love that would be most jumped on and criticized is for jet Ribs. We know what a minority we are. It's a shame Bertram had the problems they did, all which could have been avoided with just better production methods. You wish someone had bought them to do the boat right. Same design just correct the issues. But that doesn't happen generally.

When I was a kid there were still quite a few Sidewinders on our lake. Oh how I wished at that time they still built them. But then gas had risen to an outrageous dollar per gallon and no one wanted a gas guzzler like a 454 anymore.

Thank you ....Thank you...Thank you! Ralph that was hands down one of the best, most honest posts I've read in a long time. It takes a big Man to admit to all the short comings of a Bertram, and still claim a love for the Brand. You obviously have a soft spot in your heart for your old girl...and that's a good thing. A friend of mine who is a YF member is in the process of helping refit a Viking SF (not his usual cup of tea) but told me of a head that he encountered in the Master, that didn't have enough hose on one of the fittings, which he had to find and fix. So nobody builds a "perfect" boat.

When you said you have 17 thru hulls.....that freaked me out a little. I've always been a big fan of Sea Chests'. When I do a new build, I will demand having a Sea Chest...your boat has 16 more thru hulls than I'd like. More builders should have them. Once again, thank you for your honesty, and your passion.

Seachests are good, but you want a seperate seacock/thru-hull for the a/c intake. If you have constant water flow through a sea chest from the air conditioner, you will have a giant oyster farm.

Someone might have cut the toilet hose short on the Viking sometime over the years.

J, Could you expound on the oyster farm? I'm confused. (not the first time)

If the seachest doesn't have a/c intake, the water in the seachest gets stale and has no oxygen so very little stuff grows inside the seachest if anything. But if the a/c is constantly sucking water out of the seachest, you're constantly getting oxygen rich water in there that grows barnacles and oysters like wildfire. In a month in the summertime you can dig a 5 gallon bucket of oysters out of a seachest.

No sh*t? Barnacles I could do without...but I wouldn't have to dig for Oysters any more! Just kidding, I'll do a through hull for the A/C units. I love this site, I learn something new everyday.

I must openly and genuinely apologize to “Capt. J”. I stated that “If he has facts, by all means share them, and I will 100% admit my error and apologize.” Capt. J, was kind enough to share additional information and answer in a professional and cautious manner my inquiry.
I have closely watched this forum for years, particularly regarding the Bertram issues, although I held my comments. As an owner, my motivation was to become educated with concerns of my boat, as well as my interest in the growing market of larger models (Bertrams) at garage sale pricing. You can buy a 51’-63’ for ½ the price of a Hatteras or Viking, and 20-30% of their original price, with well under 1000 hours. A lot of boat for the $. Well, assuming you can carry the risk, which I can’t absorb.
Back to the focus of this post. I finally had enough, of what appeared to be a relatively small group, with a lot of growing accusations, and I wanted particulars, not broad statements. Capt. J has provided that. My statement of his credibility and motive was harsh and unwarranted, and I truly hope the he, and others, will accept my sincerest apology. Thanks

Apology accepted. No problem, I think everyone on here is a little bit too passionate from time to time, or we wouldn't love boats because they don't make a lot of rational sense. lol

Way to go Bertram 45, you scored a lot of points here by Manning up.