Bertram 630 Sportfish Sinks?

And that's where I have a problem. Shazam does have information he is not being allowed (or so goes the story I have been told, hearsay applies) to put forward more pictures or information by Yacht Forum management. Apparently he is a So Fla builder/competitor, how and in what way that affects that situation I have no direct knowledge either. Regardless of that though, there was some good and real information that he presented. Maybe not all of it, but a good bit. When you say good ridance as you do, I question your motives.

How many 630 serial numbers are there? 3 failures is what percent of the production run? What is the acceptable percentage of production failure?
At what percentage can one assume it is a prevalent problem?

Carl,
Thank you for facts.

Thanks for the clarification. If true another in a series of PR blunders by Bertram. Now that the AC sub story is out of the way, what were the other allegations that were made?

Shazam IMO so far has shown nothing
he showed hull sides and bottoms which can be coming from any boat...
I can bring you photos like that tommorow and tell you they are of maker XXX
if you want to show something of a brand name show something it identifies it, as DP does in his site or as it has been shown with Ceritif
And then he goes on to say things not true on the B700 hull 1 which apparently is being prepared for the Bertram Hatteras shoot out at the factory, where it will be the official Bertram boat. When I see full picture of any boat I start to believe him.

Maybe somebody can post the info for him

Thanks for first hand info.

Carl, (YF) Thanks for continuing to help all of us to become better educated. I recall your post (many hundreds back) that stated you did not think this was most likely a problem shared by all Bertram's, however in the best interest of the industry there needed to be some answers. That's more than fair, and it's with that attitude I keep checking back to see feedback and updates as they apply to the facts, and what can be learned. Thanks again.

Well, I would think that they would be building under some ISO 9001 or 9002 rules which would mean they should have QC samples of each boat and layup that they could test to see if the conditions common to the already delaminated boats are there in any of the rest. That would be a good place to start, use modern science and manufacturing processes to provide evidence to support a position.

OK, I will add you (Henning) to the group that includes Shazam, and Capt. J,. This is an example of just how factual your hearsay is. My motive is to stop the rumors and heresay. I have opened up my exposure (by admitting I own a Bertram) to further criticism and depreciation by welcoming additional FACTS as to quality or lack there-of. I am not hiding, hoping this will blow over, but welcoming all sustainable facts that could harm my family and friends. Heck with the depreciation at this point, it's tanked, and I can handle that.

Not that I care, but why add me? I put it right out there that this was a multi hand story and hearsay applies. Shazam had reasonable points and obvious experience. You condemned him for not bringing forth more evidence and proving things to your satisfaction. You took his absence as proof that he was a troll. I was refuting that with information I was given and labeled it clearly for value. The problem I had was the logic that was applied to dismissing out of hand what he had to say on the whole because of what you perceived.

yes Shazam had some points but he never showed the pictures. I asked for better pictures of these delaminated models he showed (i.e. showing the boat better), and so far we don't have them. He had to show also a picture of a 570 in a disaster form at the factory and still nothing. Everybody can say these things now that two 630s out of sixty have had their problems, out in the blue and be getting support. Shazam was in this case like a politician telling a hungry population you have no food. Now stop talking and bring the food, this is what I ask. Shazam is just saying what the people want to listen. Is very easy to take that root against Bertram and FG at the moment.
There was also that poster who builds custom made boats in Carolina who had a very interesting theory of the boat getting clotheslined and the deck seperating from the super structure. This also was a very interesting theory, but seems it was thrown in the bin.

Explain a scenario where that boat got "clotheslined" and not mark the bottom or leave evidence of the occurrence.... What would have been out there to do this?

A boat

travelling 25 kts.
Hits a towline (mysteriously floating above the surface)
Shreds the bow and sinks a 63' yacht
AND the tow vessel never felt it?

I was on a 205 ' WMEC Coast Guard Cutter and I can tell you, we would have felt that. We felt it everytime the tow jerked.

Let's look at the facts here, you mysteriously joined this forum this month and you have 7 posts mainly stating that long-time members who contribute a heck of a lot more than you have to offer. I have been a member here for almost 5 years, and 1200 posts. I tell it like it is, and offer what I know.

The only issues I've seen and heard of have been related to 57's, 63's, and supposedly the 70' Certifiable. The information I have are from 2 well known (worldwide) top hull surveyors from 2 different agencies as well as from a top yard manager at a well respected boat yard. I am not going to publicize their names, just what they've told me. The first Certifiable was a 57' and the boat was oil-canning, meaning the stringers were moving fore and aft without the bulkheads being attached. The 57' I ran had all of the bulkhead tabbing breakfree. I have the pre-purchase survey somewhere, and there were a few places it broke free before the owner buying it and the dealer fixed it prior to delivery (supposedly). There are 2 63's that have come apart, as well as hull #1 that the port engine took the stringer apart from the rest of the boat. How many 57s and 63's have they built and how many are in use in the owners hands? a few dozen? 40? Do you know how many were patched and covered up under warranty???? The vessel I ran sat at Allied for 4 months and then 2 months at Bertram in Miami, nobody knew about it except a few in the industry.

Shazam had a lot to offer and was the first to mention an a/c contractor is doing the layups on some Bertrams....... and low and behold it's right on their website.

I towed for Crowley for several years, even ran that route with a 730' barge San Juan to Philly. In order for them to do that at the height he did, he would have to be either right at my taff rail or next to the barge (where he would have been hitting bridle chain). Either way, if he would have struck the tow gear, he would have ended up under the barge in short order. That is the normal result of people hitting the gear, unless they happen to be a Los Angeles class sub catching the catenary with the tower, then the tug sinks.

1. Tow lines are typically far below the surface (30 feet?) unless near the point of attachment.
2. With the speed/force, it probably would have severed the cable.
3. If there were a tow vessel in the vicinity, wouldn't it have responded to the mayday/USCG call?
4. Any tracking of tow vessel on AIS?

Judy

If anybody still believes that this boat imploded from any other means other than the hull to deck bond connection failing and thus the thin hull caving in while entering a wave trough they would argue that the sky is not blue.

Go back read my posts. I might be wrong on the transom failure but i doubt it ,but i would bet my life that the primary failure of the forward section and deck was caused and did ultimately happen just the way i have stated it.

Hopefully it is only a few boats but i do not believe it.

One way or another Bertram owes this man a new boat.

This moron who makes a statement about the bouy causing the damage or for that fact any type of collision causing the hull failure does not know his azz from a hole in the ground.And the whomevers who work with this jackazz at Bertram who would allow such a blatant and stupid excuse and denial is just as dumb as him.It shows the real mentality and lack of knowlege by this group simply by that statement.

BERTRAM YOU OWE THAT MAN A BOAT

LOL, not a chance. 2 1/2" of steel cable against a fiberglass boat.... steel wins every time and keeps a little gelcoat as a souvenir. I've had people cut through before, most made it, one didn't.

Which Bertram

Agree with you, doubt any on this thread disagree. But as was pointed out to me a few posts back, Bertram is now under new ownership, Marine max no longer deal Bertram and the "law" in business is not going to force the new owner to do a THING. Also if they did out of good PR or whatever (HA!), how many other poor *******s might there be in the years to come with Bertram "submersibles?". Precedent could back fire.