Bertram 630 Sportfish Sinks?

Start a pool on who makes post 5000....

Please let neither me nor this story be alive by then.

How about a poll to get everyones opinion on why this happened. No discussion needed. 3 choices. One of the choices has to be the Buoy

Somone a few pages back mentioned the name of the AC contractor that's been accused of laminating the boats that we're discussing. Now armed with the name, I found their website and happened upon this page:

http://www.mabrumarine.com/job_opportunities.php

There's nothing wrong with an AC contractor laminating fiberglass parts, I just think if we're going to talk about the guy we should at least refer to him the same way he refers to himself, "the leading yacht manufacturer contractor."

The assertions of AC contractors laminating parts for Bertram seems pretty hard to refute considering the following:

http://www.mabrumarine.com/admin/upload/photos/big/103P1010080.JPG

again, nothing wrong with that. Perhaps these are extreamly skilled laminators that know AC as well.

Most everyone making a living in this industry wears several hats. I have no doubt that the person running this company is competent. The people actually doing the work, I am not so sure about. Good help is hard to find, and this industry is no exception. Your company is only as good as your weakest man.

This company advertises various options for Bertram, it means they may have a close relationship with Bertram but it doesn't mean they do critical structure work for them... Seems to me that when you start using cores and vacuum bagging the skill levels go up with training... Seems far fetched that a builder would sub some of that critical work

Well the guy closest in the picture looks like he's on his 3rd spliff for the day. The rumor has had it for a long time that there have not been any supervisors or quality control checking what everyone's been doing at the factory since Feretti took over......

That is a dangerous assumption that I have not seen to be accurate in 20 years and more than a couple boat (and composite airplane) building jobs. I run into people who are sloppy with measurements all the time. On a major layup job that requires a crew, typically, the guy mixing the resin is the low guy because the skilled guys are doing higher skill required work. Mixing isn't difficult, but it is critical to measure it out quite accurately.

Outsourcing work to contractors is the way of the world now.

Which Feretti take over? Where Feretti Group took over Bertram or where old man Feretti took over Feretti Group? Along the same lines, what have the changes been since the old man took back over (if any)?

As for a boat building employee smoking cannabis in the course of a work day, nahhhh..... I just can't see it happening....

Mabru has quite a few youtube's also. I posted them earlier.
You can see them working on a 63

from their website #4

MabruMarine:

1) Exclusive provider for all air conditioning and custom refrigeration needs at Bertram, me manufacture our own cockpit freezers, supply and install the most efficient, practical and reliable units. We are one of the oldest Authorized Cruisair Marine air dealer in the area. we manufacture our own custom vents to match interiors and to fit flush on headliners.

2) Exclusive provider for all Bow and stern thruster needs inside Bertram, we currently supply and install all units including, Batteries, chargers, tunnels, controls and wiring. Authorized dealer for Side power and West mar.

3) Teak decks, By utilizing state of the art CNC rotors we supply and install teak decks with or without borders with a fit and finish known to be within 1/8 of an inch.

4) For several years we have been involved in the fiber glass lamination process for most of the decks and flybridges. We are also responsible for the 67 stringers, bulkheads, tanks lamination and installation.

5) We supply the dash panels for 63 and 67 enclosed bridge.

6) With more than 15 years providing Marine Generator support as an authorized Kohler dealer.

7) We supply and install all Davits, gangways, as authorized dealer for Marquipt, Nautical structures, Bezenzoni, opacmare.

8) We fabricate and install the hard top and railing for some of the boats at the factory, we fabricate most of the tops, towers and railings for our customers.

When Feretti took over Bertram.

Ok, I'm not having trouble believing that that is true to some extent. The question really though is did the old man institute changes to rectify these problems?

I'm really getting pretty disappointed with the industry. It's not unheard of in the industry, that's for sure. This is the kind of stuff, not the physical failure, but the business and customer service failure, that has driven a lot of good owners out of the industry. They just get tired of being f-ed at every corner.

There are a lot of issues like this going on. Whether or not things changed with the old man, is unknown to me. I hear the big problem with Bertram, is there is no supervision of the workers.......I know every Bertram with issues I've seen/heard of has had the fuel tank in front of the engine room bulkhead (which is a Feretti thing that's supposed to dampen noise in the boat).

From what I've seen it's the 2003 or 4......to 2007 years we're seeing issues on....... with the new ones it's too new to tell......remember the first year the boat has a no questions asked warranty so a lot of the stuff can be fixed/hidden.......

I really dislike the cored boats, personally. I feel although the solid glass boats are heavier, they ride better, are quieter underway, and can be run at cruise in larger seas without the entire boat sounding like it's coming apart. And the hulls are more durable to impacts and rubbing issues (like hurricanes).

a few misconceptions here...

Ferretti Group bought Bertram in 1999, first new models from the new ownerhsip where 390 and 510 designed by Zuccon
Norberto Ferretti was always chairman of Ferretti Group altough he had a smaller share in recent years, as the company was mostly owned by Fund companies and banks, this has been going since 2001 when the company was delisted. FG was listed in Milan stock exchange from 1999 to 2001
Ferretti shares and that of the other owners Antonelli from Pershing, Cataldo Aprea from Apreamare decreased from 20% to 10% in the period from 2001 to 2008
the forward tank is more a gravity thing then noise insulation, Ferretti hate bow high riding boats, and they would prefare a wet boat then one riding with noise high
Bertram is cored only at the sides, many and close to all boats are cored on the sides today...
yes Capt J is 10000% correct cored boats do feel more thumping, from my experience with cored bottoms that I rode, which where only a couple. Altough balsa cored bottoms do feel better for ride then solid glass, but wood will always feel better to glass or plastic because of its natural flexibility and natural thermo accoustic properties
many here critisize coring sandwich but food for thought the two most sold Sportfish brands i.e. Cabo (plastic foam) and Viking (balsa) are actually fully cored, this shows how much speed and light weight is important in this industry...

This part kind of worries me, key structural elements are being made and probably installed by a sub contractor. They probably are not being supervised by a project manager. A sub contractor could could be great one year and lousy another because of the people they employ.

The problem I see with coring is it creates a cavity where water can penetrate. Add a few freeze/ thaw cycles and you have delamination. This same boat in a southern enviroment may never have a problem. The coring has to be perfectly sealed to prevent any water intrusion.

This is where I have a problem. As I said earlier, good riddance to Shazam, and hopefully Capt J will be next! Case in point, “rumor has had it”, not unlike half of what he has posted, lacks true unbiased facts. I have personally been to the Bertram factory twice in recent years, and witnessed a quality control program and supervision, and the written checklists to document them. When “rumors” shade the important issues here, credibility is lost, and only turns this important matter into a feeding frenzy of those that feed on misfortune and bashing for the sake of entertainment. Several posts have referenced “all the many failures of the new Bertram’s since Feretti, OK where are those pictures and proof? I would like to see them, not to defend Bertram (and my investment) but to make an educated decision on my current and future boating platform. We have to date, two 63’ Bertram’s, one of which clearly shows defects, a second that very well could have perished due to the same type of defects. MAYBE a 57’, for the reasons stated herein I have a credibility issue with the source, I welcome the pictures and documentation “to all the others”. I said earlier, I am concerned, and believe there was a problem at Bertram, lets seek the facts as to how far reaching it truly is, and leave the rumors where they belong, somewhere else. Oh, and if you call two pictures, blisters around a recessed step, and one on a hullside "proof", it further makes my point.

Certifiable was a 2008, this boat a 2006 leftover. So please, lets see some documentation on the 2003 or 4....... to 2007 years, and the others that have all these problems, please. There have been over 75 of the 390's and 450's produced after 2002, must be some out there that support your claims. (those two models I can verify by serial numbers, add the larger models to the mix if you like)

Bertram45, you have a point. Facts are what is needed here. If indeed there exists photos of other lamination issues, why were the people in posession of those photos stopped from posting them?