Bertram 630 Sportfish Sinks?

Have you seen the pictures? The bottom of the boat appears unmarked and the top of the bow is gone. (and the entire transom)
This one does not look much like a grounding. IMHO

Good Night Jon Boy.......

Brilliant, Kamzoori, just brilliant!
The tin hat idea clearly has merit.

Well, it could be a special upside-down grounding...

the buoy flipped it over and then it hit the artificial reef

Nobody on this forum in 43 pages of posts, ever mentioned the companies name (AA MABRU) doing the fiberglass work on the Bertram line except you...... #4, you said doing all of the fiberglass work......so if they (you seem to know the name of the company) did some of the fiberglass work on the 630 line that statement would still be true. So you are admitting a company AA MABRU was at the bertram factory but, you never saw them do anything. They just drove to the factory and stood around for the months you were there?

a clear cut case for the use of sodium pentothal ..........but i guess the use of it would not go over to big in the boating world........

Well, at least your screen name is honest.... Start from the beginning of the thread and try again, and try to look at all the information this time. Along with the myriad of conjecture, there are the basic facts that no one is arguing. The pictures, declared date is irrelevant, a simple error, are not in dispute as to the accuracy of content. The fact that the storm moved it a mile explains the transom. It had always been a wildcard for me, so I believe that much. As I've said since the first I saw the pictures; If that boat hit that bouy (and it may have) and received that level of damage while inflicting that little to the bouy, the sales contract is voidable because the product delivered was not suitable to the job it was sold to fill. Whether that was a manufacturing defect, or hidden prior damage while under care and custody of Marine Max (I suspect a combination) is irrelevant to the customer because he bought from MM.

I think with the relationship that the captain has with Marine Max, they are going to end up paying here. Marine Max is really playing this stupidly in this market. This is a tough market and it's the time to step up and make a buyer right. They, as well as the captain, should have ensured that the proper insurance for the voyage was in place, they are the professionals. They should have stepped up, made the buyer whole and subrogated what they could when the case settled. If I have my choice, why in the hell would I buy from someone who isn't making sure I'm ok? Not me, and I could never recommend them. If they are sole source dealership, I'd probably look at a different brand. I can assure you, I'm not the only one thinking this. Marine Max has spent a hell of a lot of money on branding themselves, shame to see that go to waste over this. I would bet that they could find a way to cover much of this under their insurance package.

If there is some mitigating circumstance that absolves Marine Max from responsibility in this like they weren't involved with getting the insurance or arranging the delivery and that the captain approached the buyer with none of their involvement, I'd certainly like to hear from them.

As for artificial reefs in general, typically they are very well thought out and are typically in greater than 60' of water. There are some shallower when out of the shipping lanes and strategically located to economic advantage of various marine tourism industry. Over 20 years as a captain running all the coasts of the US, I have never seen an artificial reef create an undue hazard.

Hi,

Retardo, You say you are an author in your profile, who do you write for and what do you write about?

Anyone with right bags or number of 209 Lt drums could float this thing piece of piss and remove all speculation.

Bah, this is even more cruel then that 25-knots thingy.

Poor Bertram, really.

Edit in:

Well at least it sounds a bit scarier then a buoy!

Still a little unsure on the transom, if it started fine it should have held in the dragging IMHO, but oh well...

Having run a salvage business, knowing that the boat was moved a mile and a half in a storm explains the transom quite easily, I bet if I had my old AquaZep I could find it. Nothing survives bouncing along the bottom, the forces involved are pretty high. That was always the damage that didn't fit without the information that Mike Meyers gave in his last message. Doesn't excuse the reason it got to the bottom though, nor that the trip left uninsured. Professionals failed here, this is an E & O issue.

Right, "we're misled". Lord have mercy on our souls.

I'm so sick and tired of this old stupid "everyone saying what we do not like must be a vile conspirator with secret Judo-Mason-Templar-Satanic agenda" defence. Dude, at least take your time reading the thread before going on with much of the same BS that keeps popping up every few pages, probably hoping to stick.
You neednt even to go far back, for crying out loud, it's all have been discussed right on the last pages.

Quite sums it up as far as I'm concerned, thanks.
That is, if mile and a half dragging holds and is not solely based on the location of the buoy.
Last edit in: If it bounced enough to lose transom, shouldnt it have damaged the prop just a little bit more?

You would be very correct in that, because that never had anything to do with what brought the boat to the bottom. You never see me say anything about any of that stuff. The problem was in the bow, everything else is a consequence. I wasn't concerned with it because that damage is indicative with a sinking. The transom was the wild card that became explained. I didn't particularly agree with any prior theory, but yes, now all those questions are answered, so we can concentrate on the real question, is anyone going to make that buyer whole? As a marine professional, I'm embarrassed by the low standard of service here.

http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/images/misc/My_2007_Azimut_62S.pdf

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/bad_news_for_Bertram.htm

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/sinking_of_Bertram_630_Absolutely.htm


http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/fi...astrophic-delamination-new-bertram-25877.html

Nibral edge thin and hard slices into sand, transom large and flat takes the blows. There is probably some non rotational deformation on the buried blades. It will also bounce down on the stern edge first since the fuel tanks are bouyant and in front of the engines.

Time Out

Gentlemen,
What a THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let's all, if I may be allowed to suggest, share a drink, a break, a "time out"!!!
For me that is a LARGE Lagavulin 16 year old single malt (DOUBLE Tumbler).
Then go for it once more...

Well, for starters, I fancy Laphroaig more.
And then, you just salted my wound. Right at New Year sales, I spotted unknown (to me at the moment) bottles labeled "the ileach, islay single malt" at local mall... going for about 14 bucks! I never believed it's anything good going this cheap and bought only 2 bottles... go figure. Turned out to be a young "anonimously bottled" Lagavulin, and, errm... GOOD. Even good in abstract, but at that price - you-wouldnt-believe-it good )) I ran back at the first opportunity - to fing sale's over, around 45 bucks price tag (which is kind of normal for it down here). So don't you tease me

Besides, I'm not in Islay mood now. Aberlour it be, A'bunadh. Cheers!

so hang on, theres been to major impacts, the bow and the transom(that transom looks like it has had one major clean impact, not several…?). Apart from that the boats in pretty good order (the props look like u could bend then right back into shape and your off again)…. Now how do we get to a 63’ tumbling in the ocean. If that thing is bouncing off reefs, shouldn’t there be a lot of random punch holes all over it, including the bottom??? And moving a mile or 2 from the buoy, maybe a few feet/meters…..???? but come on, is it possible to read theories that are possible…?

Jbk4001, it would good if those 5 press releases stated more than just the 630 sank. And supplied more than just its own speculation. Don’t mean to be rude, that’s how I see and take it.

SHAZAM! Loved that vid, I could almost feel the boat impacting on the waves. That went straight to my favorites

far

hello I have been following this thread since it started
since you show these pictures is it possible to show one depicting more of the Bertrams form and shape in question
I can get you a dozen of similar pics from a boat yard, but unless I dont see a full boat as was the case with Certif I guess it can be anyones guess what is it...

If The 63 hit a tow line would this explain the damage.