Bertram 630 Sportfish Sinks?

Far, I'm not saying you are wrong in any way. I'm just exploring my own theory.
My response to the three items listed above in your quote...

1. upward force from the lines on the transom cleats upward to the tug.

2. But where was it moving through? The salon? The salon bulkhead is still there in one piece so tons of water didn't rush through there.

3.Correct. There very well might be a small pile behind it but being pulled backwards but the rake of the prop would be sending sand in the opposite direction. There was possibly a last stitch effort where the boat was moved slightly forward too (missing tower with legs bent forward??).

Looking at the prop trench digging observation of mine, look at what appears to be something resembling a sheet or cover which obviously was caught by the prop. It's leading forward, away from where it's been dragged. Yet another sign of the boat being dragged astern.

Tower was torn off eh? Legs pointing forward huh? You could have hit a brick wall & the tower wouldn't have been ripped off not there at all. The initial impact might break it free but all the cables and wires would act like rubber bands & kept it on what remained of the boat. It could be torn down but it would be there, hanging all over the boat. Yet another attempt to drag it after dragging astern failed? It would have been the last easy thing to grab with lines.

Bill106, welcome, hopefully u and Shazam can come up with something.

yes the glue has gone through the gaps, but when i was doing some work a few months back with a core material, and did a few tests (as such), i noticed the weakest part was the core... it always gave way, fractured through itself, and left half still on the other part/surface (cause the glue adhere between the core and the other surface), it was a 75kg density. what im saying is the glue is not adhering to the outer layer of the fibreglass... just like the other bertram 'certifiable'. Ill have a talk to a friend who worked at High Modulus? im not saying your wrong, just like second opinions

to me the boat looks like it has hit a barge (or a very solid object), which is what i was first going to say/ask... BUT why havent Bertram gone with that (apart from the tower not being wrapped around the cabin), it would have been a get out of jail card for Bertram, and this thread would of max out at 10 pages, any boat would have blown out like it did and they could have just hung the skipper on a f**kup...? instead, we are 700 posts in with the biggest pile of B/S about a pissy buoy that couldnt hurt a fly...? the situation just doesn’t add up…?

and come on! who in there right mind would try and drag a $2-3m boat with a mayday (which everyone knows about, including myself… in australia, including the people who rescued)/and a please don’t touch or your go straight to jail all over it. Bertram cant, if they get busted there going down. The skipper can just blame equipment on the boat/the boat, that’s his get out card, so why would he have to drag it… your still going to find the boat, if he did make a mistake? And the barge cowboys… wouldn’t that be like trying to steal a broken down Ferrari on the side of the highway, and trying to steal it by strapping some rope around its carbon bumper….? Sorry, but dragging that boat just has stupid stamped all over it, im not saying it didn’t happen, it would just be stupid for the party that tried.

CTdave, maybe the hatches gave way from the air pressure, and let the water in through there…? with that kind of damage I would be surprised if the bulk heads are still intacked, because there was a pic of one that was free as a bee (I think pic #26). The boat still had 10 mins on the surface pitching and rolling… flexing in the wrong directions with that f-load of water rolling around in there…
Cant explain the trenches, it could be the tide ripping through. Not to sure.

far

to show how fast they can go, check out the links. note on the tug vid and on how violent it all is, and if it went down on a angle. cheers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0ClIx8-L3M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceoPCK5zWXI&feature=related

far

Was there ever a description of the blue object in pic # 5 and #12 jutting out on the starbard side? Sorry if I missed it

That was my point. If they are not willing to "put up" then perhaps, sadly, they should fail as a company.

And hopefully some one else will step up and buy the name Bertram and start making solid, well built boats again. There by resurrecting the name Bertram.

"sheet or cover"?

All I see is sand and fish.

Good call Bill. Bertram should go out of business. They should close their doors. The municipality where they're built can do without that tax revenue, the investors can do without their investments, the current Bertram owners won't mind having their boats value cut in half and the employees can collect welfare (Glad you don't mind your taxes going up to cover this). No need to wait for the involved parties to reach conclusions based on ALL the evidence after all Capt. Bill had determined that ALL Bertrams are c--- boats. BTW, it's a safe bet that IF that name ever gets ressurected it will not be in the US, but what the heck. Americans shouldn't be building boats anyway.

At this point I'm not sure why you say Bertram should go out of business. It's easy for all of us to sit and type these posts, but we have no idea whats going on behind the scenes? In the end, if the experts determine that the accident was caused by a barge or other object, Bertram is saved and all Bertram owners can breathe easy.

It really isn't fair to convict or aquit, until all the evidence is in, this could take a while, when you think about it, really not so much time has elapsed.

Teddy, I believe NYCAP was being sarcastic in his last post. And I agree with him in waiting to hear ALL the facts first.

Maybe so, but read through the 100's of posts, many have allready determined that Bertram is at fault, just saying, whats the rush to judgement?

Look in the sand running below the prop shaft.

The only ones who seem not to have figured out yet that Bertram is at fault are the involved parties, but what do they know. It's not like they could have any info that this forum doesn't. Shazam & Capt. Bill have determined that Bertram should be put out of business. Didn't you see all the pics that Shazam posted proving that the entire line is bad? Check posts 583 & 584. Bet you've never seen anything like that on anything but a Bertram. BTW, in case there is any mistaking the nature of this post...

Hi,

Slow down a bit Ed, here were two pictures posted that could have been any boat, when he first started writing about all the photos he had I was expecting dozens of them not just the two we have seen so far which don't really prove anything.

Shazam if you do have some more please feel free to post them so we can all have a look.

Gunner, the old wooden "classics" had to be refastened periodically. Sometimes they screws corroded away enuff to allow a plank or two to come off with catastrophic results.

i think its safe to say Bertrams workmanship is fine, BUT some of the materials are up for questioning, as SHAZAM said...?

i bet if someone did get another 630 and hit that buoy at 25knts, u would not see the same damage.

far

Ok, we seem to be over the bow blowing apart and the myseriously missing transom and tuna tower. Lets explore the bridge console.
Looking at the picture just above and left of the Yacht Forums "YF" port hole logo, you can see from the angle of the port side railing on the top/outer edge of the bridge that the console is shifted back (more so on the port side) as well as being on top of the rail. The console is up, back & crooked. I also see that the port side arm rest of the port side seat is inside the cabinet opening (follow the arm rest which the inside surfaces are covered with white vinyl). Looking at the height of the opening vs. the height of the helm seat arm rest, the whole console had to be lifted up, pulled back and dropped back down. All this damage to the helm console yet the "upsweep" from the bridge to the deck and the sides of the bridge are completely in tact. Is that the remains of the steering wheel inside the opening in front of the helm chair or a wiring bundle?

Does anyone have a pre accident picture of the bridge? I bet there were a couple of aluminum struts from the missing tuna tower that were mounted to the now repositioned console.

this is what your after Dave...? and why we back on to this? if we unlock what happen to the boat in the first place (the bow), it will more than likely answer why the bridge/transom is why it is. cheers

far

Capt J,

thats why it doesnt add up, that tower should be kissing that cabin if it hit a barge. save bet i think to remove the barge from the equation. IMO cheers

far