Bertram 630 Sportfish Sinks?

Then what you were stating as fact was in fact rank speculation. I think this thread should be split into one about the delamination problem throughout the industry, another about bashing Bertram and a third about this accident.

Before you hurt your arm trying to pat yourself on the back, read your own post.

Now who is claiming to be an expert on what materials are available? Geesh, between you and Henning ... nobody said anything about epoxy not being part of the process or prepregs not requiring handwork in some applications. If you guys have to resort to red herrings like that to obtain credibility then everything you have to say is suspect in my eyes.

Agreed. There is a vast amount of education to be found in this thread. Conjecture and speculation aids in this. But it is important that C & S label itself as that so as not to be taken as fact when it damages the reputation of specific manufacturers or dealers. Otherwise this forum could be used by business entities to hurt their competition.

Again totally agree with you. As a potential Bertram customer all I want is facts as to make a prudent decision,

This goes back to gelcoat that changes color if it is impacted.

The resin companies are only developing a gelcoat ,say a white gelcoat that turns a bleech red if it takes an impact. They are not coming up with this resin for no reason? Its because of the light weight cores and laminates that are finding their way onto formerly overbuilt hulls. Henning your remark about a former accident is so true. I remember when they first came out with carbon fiber fishing rods, they were very light and stiff and if you looked at it you could not find a thing wrong.But if it was just tapped against a sharp edge previous to fishing and then a small fish would break it off at the impact area? Another danger for big cored boats is travel lifts and boat yards. Imagine when they lift a 100,000 lb boat with a travel lift and now they try to set it down level in the yard? Somewhere on that hull it will touch first before any other blocking points. What will the first point of blocking do to a cored hull?

As a Captain that does 20,000 NM in deliveries a year, I would be downright scared of delivering a newish Bertram, after the experiences I have had delivering the brand new 57' that I was running a few years ago and what has happened to all of the other ones. I made a crossing in 3-5' seas from Pensacola to Clearwater with the seas on the port 1/4 to beam. The boat was riding fine, no pounding, wetter then a submarine. Halfway across I notice the wall was split on the dayhead from the door frame to the ceiling. Get into the slip and the anchor pulpit (has a crack) is seperating from the deck. Get back to Fort Lauderdale and discover ALL of the tabbing between the bulkheads and stringers has broken loose and the bulkheads have been shifting around in the boat. Boat spent 4 months at Allied and they couldn't fix it, it then went to the factory and spent another few months, Bertram compensated the owner by extending his hull warranty 1 year.

Also, I would HIGHLY recommend taking a seatrial on a new Hatteras,Viking, and something else before taking the seatrial on the Bertram to make a very informative decision.

That actually has become the subject of this thread, but it has been directed solely at one manufacturer. Maybe it's time to close this thread until more definitive word about this accident is made public and move most of these 33 pages into either a Bertram or cored hull threads.

Was hoping to get a few quick questions answered for my own curiosity. How was the anchor dropped or retrieved on this boat, was it done manually? The other question is do the boat manufacturers designate a place on the hull where a dry docking support should be placed? It seems like it would be important to locate them where cross bracing is located. Thanks

On a boat like this a windless would certainly be used for the anchor. The hull will be marked where to place the slings, but blocking is typically done on the corners and along the keel with a few jacks to counter side movement usually placed near the flare (more depending on length and weight). Often under the chines as well on larger boats.

The boat had no anchor up on deck>>>>>>>>>>

Someone on here had a link to the same boat when whole not holed. It looked like they were going for the uncluttered deck look. I think the anchor might have been in a under deck area under a hatch on bow for that clean look. Most big boats have sling marks for the hoist straps. Its still at the mercy of the lowest paid help in a boat yard on blocking.

Thankyou for the quick response. It sounds like the keel support is the most important. If that support was to sink then more upward stress would be placed on the flare?

If the keel is not properly supported you've got big problems from the keel up.

The boat had no anchor up on deck>>>>>>>>>>




How do you know this!!?? You always state things as facts - when we all know your speculations become your facts. Let's get the facts verified 1st!

I believe this was the boat
http://www.**************/boats/2006/Bertram-630-2073929/Lindenhurst/NY/United-States

Well, the design of the boat doesn't support securing the anchor on deck, it has a well it goes in. First thing one does when heading out on one of these deliveries is secure the anchor since you aren't planning on using it. Besides, there's nothing in the damage that indicates an anchor grab.

Duh I think I was trying to esplain that to addad

What dont you understand about my post??????Ill try to go slow

Thanks henning I need it with some of this crowd

I cant Imagine the captain watching stupid ideas comming up on line about how it might have happened and been caused by him? I stopped doing deliveries long ago. but I always took them very serious.I think most all do.

I'm going WAY out on a limb here BUT>>>>
After reattaching my jaw after seeing those pictures, several things come to mind.
A hole gets punched into the bow at say 25kts (probably much faster).The water pressure is so great that upon entry it has nowhere else to go than blowing apart the rest of the bow. I've seen it plenty of times when racing offshore. Granted, higher speeds but an opening in the Bertram could ingest quite a bit of water very quickly with the forward motion and massive engines still pushing it.
The big question is the transom....theory #2..........

The bow blows apart. Boat sinks. Someone who does not want that boat to be found gets a few divers and a tug & tries to move it far from the scene. Geeze, no cleats left on the bow, lets pull it from the stern! The stern rips away. Hmmm! Tie it up by the rudder struts. Strut ripps away. Crappola! Lets get out of here!
The prop does not look damaged but the rudder is ripped out. How else can that be explained? You can see in the pictures "trenches" dug in front of the prop like it was being dragged to the rear but also sand is piled like it was being pushed forward. Interesting....

disclamer: I had about 10 minutes to read this & that was 30 min ago. I have not read all the posts since the pictures came out so forgive me if anyone else has a more professional assesment.