Bertram 630 Sportfish Sinks?

Teddy1, I would suggest that u respect the boats boundaries, it isn’t a custom battlewagon. U shouldn’t have the same problem here though… unless u run into a large dense object . It also wouldn’t hurt to do a little research on the hulls construction to see what it’s all about. Cheers

SHAZAM! What im trying to say is eg, u make a product with - one layer of glass – one layer of core – then another layer of glass. Now in regards to that first layer of glass then core, how does the builder know it has adhered to each other…? Keep in mind it’s in a mold?

far

OTP posted the same.

Since no one in the past 30 pages has put together a “hypothetical chain of events “that would paint a complete picture of what happen, and after reading what has been posted to this point this sounds the most realistic:
After hearing the Capt’s girlfriend had her feet on the console (and deployed the anchor not knowingly) , the boat suddenly became somewhat sluggish and non responsive for a very short amount of time , a series of loud sounds and a sudden stop that threw the Capt to the deck of the bridge (because just prior to the sudden stop he had stood up to look at the gauges to see what could be causing the erratic behavior ) the anchor dragging caused the boat to go off course (just enough) to run over the buoy, catch the (buoy) chain,(with the anchor) and open her up like a can opener. Also this would explain the damage to the rudder post and transom. After getting back to the helm the Capt. stated the next wave was over the bow. At this point he determines that the boat is sinking calls a mayday and goes to the salon the gather the ditch bag and lift raft. Deploying the raft (from the cockpit) he notices the transom is also torn away (on the port side). He summons his girlfriend into the raft, following himself.

My $ 0.02

I've been observing all the commenting and speculation going on in this thread and the more I read, the more suspicious and skeptical I become about the individuals expressing opinions other than the facts. It seems to me that there is too much need from some people to use this story (which could be ANYTHING the way things look like at the moment) to mislead the innocent bunch that is only interested in finding out the truth.

I will thus stick my head out and take a more factual approach until things clear-out a little bit at least:

1. If it weren't for the Italians, Bertram would probably be non-existent right now. Nevertheless, let's not ignore the fact that Bertrams are still built in the US, are run by an American President and give jobs to American taxpayers.
2. ALL manufacturers (and not just Sea-Ray, which is the only builder some people seem to associate Bertram to on this site...) including Bertram's competitors have faced delamination and other structural issues in the past, but obviously they had less need for a good PR dept than Bertram does now
3. The yachting world, competing or not, owes Bertram more than what is being written about them. Let's not forget how many features initially seen on Berts were soon followed by its two main competitors (Deep-V to start with) and are now considered industry standards. After all, looking at the bigger picture, I cannot think of another US builder with a a bigger footpring on International Yachting than Bertram. Even if the domestic market seems to want to forget this, it is proven by Bertram's conquering International dominance in the SF market, which still remains.

I don't mean to be a party-pooper, nor to give Bertram (or this site) more credit than they deserve. Bertram and the Italians are not perfect by any means but everybody goes through a rough patch, and this shipyard deserves more time and respect by any one who claims to be a boater.

JBK,
You seem to have a pretty interesting if not potentially thorough account of what happened. I say that since not many folks discussed the point that the "mate" could have been the cap's girlfriend and maybe it was she who was behind the wheel.
I don't recall posting that info, but yes, I was told she was on board by my reliable source.
This may also lend itself to a new conversation of liability. Was she licensed? Did MM or the owner know she would be onboard? Was she cleared to pilot the yacht? Hmmm...
Yes, accidents do happen, and for their sake and after viewing the photos/videos I'm very happy they survived, but it still must have been a harrowing experience.
So perhaps the buoy is really an innocent victim here and not the cause of the disaster. If there was an anchoring system on board (photos on Yachtworld show differently), why was there no securing cable/line holding the anchor in place to prevent such situations?
There are many lessons to be learned here, and by many folks, from builders to supply chain to captains and more. Let's hope that after all this coverage, we don't have another situation where there was an anchor mishap, buoy hit, missing insurance, bad coring (not insinuating, but time for builders to check on their processes), etc.

Phew, just spent half a day reading this thread.
Let me start out by saying I'm not an expert on composites, so anything here is purely hypothetical.

1. If you look at the failure modes, the pictures of the Bertram 630 look worrying.
Catastrophic failure is never something to be cheerful about, but there are good ways to fail and bad ways to fail. If you look at the hurricane damage on the boat in post #392, you can see that the core material is split. Part of it is still attached to the inside skin, part of it is on the outside skin. That's a good way to fail.
If you look at the screengrabs (e.g. 24, 30, 31) from the video of the artificial reef, you can see that in many places, the skin separated entirely from the core.
For a cored material to be as light and strong as it is famed for, it is necessary that both skins and core work together when stressed. I believe the bonding between skins and core should at least be as strong as the shear strenght of the core material itself. I would recommend the owner to have the pictures examined by specialists in composite structures, like High Modulus or SP Technologies.

I think the future of composite boats is in cored (sandwich) materials, because they are lighter and stronger, when done properly. I am afraid the impact of threads like these on public opinion may force a return to antiquated technology (resulting in more fuel burn in the end).

2. I don't believe in the piercing-buoy-pushing-the-deck-upwards theory. The radar reflector would have been damaged.

3. The accidentally-released-anchor theory holds promise, if that is at all possible on that boat. Maybe Bertram captains can confirm?

4. Another theory: Burying the bow at high speed in an oncoming wave, the bow section broke and the entire foredeck was pealed backwards by the force of the water (like the hood of a car would do when it's not closed and you're driving at highway speeds). The wave on deck pushed back the steering console on the flybridge and the scooped water rushing into the boat at high speed dislocated the bulkheads. The sudden increase in air pressure in the engine room made the hatches and the entire transom blow out.
Finally the rudder got dislodged as it was the first point of contact of the sinking vessel with the bottom. (Carl, is there a more zoomed-out picture of the rudder and its surroundings?)

The burying of the bow could have been preceded by contact with a floating object (e.g. the buoy). I believe that a puncture of the hull immediately followed by a high-impact slam can cause such catastrophic failure, but it's up to the experts to determine if this was a strong hull or not.

In case of a different submerged object, I believe we would have seen damages on the bottom.

Lets say "hypothetically" no, no, no, & no........

Thanks for your reply, I took your advise and called Egg Harbor, they were very nice and helpful. My boat hull is totally hand laid fiberglass, it is solid from the chimes down and has a diviny cell core above, but the glass is also hand laid. Their newer boats use the vacumn infusion process. I reallydon't know if hand laid is better or the newer processes, vacumn bagging? A vacumned hull is supposed to be stronger and lighter? Egg Harbor told me that their last hull falure was in the mid 1940's, that kind of made me feel better?

Thanks, again for your advise.

As for the mate/helmsman being licensed, that would be a rarity on small boats. Few owners want to pay for 2 licenses to be aboard. Personally, I hate being on the wheel except when it gets close or tense. However, I'm always watching and able to take control within seconds. That said, I've given up using unlicensed help for transoprts because anybody with that lose a schedule is generally someone I wouldn't want to count on. My boats now move with 2 captains.
The anchor theory is very interesting. Hard to imagine a captain running a boat without checking the safety pin/lanyard and it takes 2 actions to drop an anchor, but anything is possible. Hopefully the less experienced pick up on that lesson because I've found many unsecured anchors.
I asked a friends opinion of the pics. He e-mailed me asking where they were. Realizing that there is a lot to read through on this thread I emailed him the relative post numbers avoiding those containing speculation, conjecture and bashing (he can read the rest when he has time). These 30 pages were boiled down to 7 posts. Many if not most of the rest are educational though.

Not if you use the correct metal.

Did you look at the boat? How did she deploy an anchor that is stowed away? The anchor is not on a pulpit or otherwise exposed on deck....

Vacuum bagging is a process that is used after the layup. It can be done on either a hand layup or chopper gun spray.

Correct there is no pulpit. But there was an anchor roller that was attached to the bow of the boat that the anchor was mounted in.

The link that post 321 brings you to is showing pictures of several different boats. Some wet, some dry, some with teak cockpits some without. The boat that went down had an anchor roller with an anchor that was suppose to be in it (hypothetically)…….

My understanding is that the vacuum bagging process uses less resin?

While this entire scenario may be possible. It sounds like a chain of events that all wrapped into 1, are about as likely as winning the Powerball. I would assume if the boat had an anchor without a pulpit, it would have mostly rode and not chain. If the anchor happened to hook the buoy at 25-30knots which is still a 1 in a million chance, it should snap that 3/4"-1" anchor rode in a heartbeat without doing this kind of damage to the vessel. I also think that someone would hear or feel the anchor deploy, as well as the noise dragging it would make. Also, if the anchor delployed you would see more damage to the hull, bottom paint, and running gear. I don't think the buoy is a part of this equation as I think the damage to the buoy would be far greater then what were seeing.

Most of the deliveries I do on vessels of this size, it is not feasible to have another licensed Captain as a mate. Most Captains (that are good) do not work as mates. And, most owners are not willing to pay an extra $150+ a day to pay for them. However, the mates that I do use are experienced mates and can operate the vessel and navigate into port as well as stand a watch, use the electronics and operate the radar. I also am not on the wheel in open water for the entire day, if I leave them helm it will only be long enough to go to the head and come back or check the engine room once an hour. However, I am at the helm primarily all of the day, but may hand it over to the mate and if so I am sitting on the seat right next to them, awake and alert.

For the life of me, I cannot remember where on the helm the windless controls are, if they are even located on the helm, but I don't remember them being in an area where you could accidentally hit them with your feet, or otherwise on the 57' Bertram that I used to run. Mine had the pulpit with anchor and no safety, but I used a seperate rope as a safety tied around the drum.

Yes and it helps more uniformely distribute the resin through the matting and core.

I’m amused by the vast array of “experts” bandying about some truly amazing “facts” about boatbuilding, let alone theories about how this calamity happened. I think the only thing missing is a suggestion of alien attack, but that’s likely to be forthcoming.

There is one thing I would like to remind those who are blaming the construction. It doesn’t matter if you’re touting vacuum bagging or resin infusion, coring or no coring, hand-laid versus chopper. The fact is that it all comes down to people and materials.

First, keep in mind that fiberglass is a material that is alloyed on site. It is not delivered in flat sheets from the foundry or planks from a mill. It is created ON THE SPOT. That means that all the mixtures must be exact, that the resins and catalysts are fresh, that the materials are designed to work with each other. The work area must be clean and the temperature and humidity must be within a narrow window.

Then, whether it’s hand layup or twisting the knobs on a resin infusion system, there are human hands at work. Those hands may be attached to a worker who is hung-over, on drugs, getting a divorce, out on bail, or fighting the flu. He may not have washed his hands since he had that greasy cheeseburger for lunch, and he may not notice the drops of sweat in the mold from his forehead.

These problems have been the curse of fiberglass reinforced plastic from the days when it really was glass and it really was plastic. And they will be a problem in the future, too.

$150 a day is what I pay unlicensed mates. Captains get the same as me.
On the 51' I used to captain the toggle would be easy enough to hit as it was on the front of the console below the throttles, but it could be put anywhere. However you had to first trip the breaker which was up on the helm. There was also a pin safety that went through the anchor roller. I also seem to recall being all chain, but we didn't anchor much and it was many boats ago.