Bertram 630 Sportfish Sinks?

Buoy Oh Buoy!

WOW!!! I'll never underestimate one of them **** little yellow buoys again!

if the boat had impacted the buoy, there would some damage at the bow below water line... visualize the position of the bow at speed, there is no way for the buoy to hit and cause impact damage so far up.

is it possible that the catastrophic damage seen in the bow and foredeck area was caused by trapped air which had nowhere to escape once the boat got deeper in the water, and eventually exploded the bow?

i don't understand the rush to blame the captain here. well, i can understand it from Bertram but not from other captains. The damage to the rudder indicate that the boat hit something but until proven otherwise, I'm betting a something lurking just under the surface. there is no way that buoy would have ripped that rudder.

unless the rudder damage occured when the wreck hit the bottom, remember it may not have landed vertically but with some forward speed.

Henning and I see that damage with way different eyes. That is why (as usual) the lawyers are going to do well on this.

The buoy's mast stands about 12' above the water and rocks. If the boat came down as the buoy leaned toward it that would put the mast at just about the right place to lift the deck off and leave the buoy virtually unscathed.

Huuhhh???
That sounds about as probable as the argument that a loose anchor swung around and sank the Marine Electric.... It's a buoy that is floating not a daymarker.

Stop by a dive shop and ask that question.

Is there any way a thorough survey could have caught this structural fault prior purchasing?

Maybe maybe not. Typically all that is done is "sounding" the boat, tapping on it with a nylon tipped hammer and listening for the tell tale shifts in sound between voids and continuous substrate. That's for delamination. As for the shatter cracks, that would require ultrasounding with a 70* crystal minimally nondestructively. That would not be a standard service provided in a prepurchase survey.

i take it as yes...

I think it's *clearly* obvious that the buoy in question is not responsible for the catastrophic failure the boat had. I'm no expert, nor do I claim to be, but I'm pretty confident in that statement. Betrams letter, CYA / Corporate Kool-Aid.

No. Not enough air pressure, force or buoyancy to do so. Air, like water, like electricity is lazy, It finds the path of least resistance to escape.

Agreed- The buoy didn't cause it the damage to the bow, nor the running gear. The boat sinking couldn't have had enough speed or inertia to do the damage to the rudder or running gear as seen there. You figure for something that size, with that much displacement in / of the water, the amount of speed it's going to have when hitting the bottom is going to be very little. Perhaps a MPH or two. not to mention, it looks to be a pretty soft / sandy bottom.

I don't put any blame on the captain.
If the images from the video don't show you what the issue was, then nothing will. (I'll give you a hint: the impact shown on the buoy in question was not it. At best, it's questionable if the boat even hit the buoy)

~PB

i guess anything is possible, but i think that the mast would have been pushed out of the way, bouncing off.

on the other hand the buoy could have caused the damage to the strut and rudder but then i believe they'd be more evidence on the buoy.

as to insurance, I also review the declaration page when i get on a boat. i cant' imagine not doing so, it's just one page! if anything there could be geographical restrictions (date south of xxxx) or coverage valid up to xx miles off shore that the owner might have over looked.

it's part of the preflight check, just like checking for other compliance issues, like seacocks and Yvalves, garbage plan, oil and garbage placard, flares and fire extinguishers, etc...

If you're boarded and dont' have the garbage plan, as minor as it may seem, you will have to explain to the owner why, as a professional, you missed that little detail.

But does the rudder show any indication of a strike?

Hard to tell from the pictures but it did not look bent or damaged. Perhaps as the transom and/or hull de-laminated the rudder just pulled it's mount out from the force of the water flowing passed it?

As mentioned in an earlier post, I had a call into Bertram Yachts for their input to the situation. Bertram President Mike Myers contacted me today and gave an update.

First, it was confirmed that the previous notice from Bertram that is posted earlier in this thread was from him. He has an updated notice that was distributed today of which I received a copy (see below). You will see in the notice that he covers various aspects of the situation and I have included the supporting documentation he refers to.

Mike did tell me that they have no plans to raise the yacht, and that Bertram did not own the vessel (just to make that clear).

So bottom line guys do you think it hit something or this was caused by lousy construction and workmanship? Or it hit something and the problem aggravated by lousy construction and workmanship?

For me this is important as I will be running my boat between PR, Dom Rep and Vzla not the most of forgiving envairoments along the fact that my family will be with me.

As per my previous post the outcome of this will pretty much narrow down my search for boat brands. Is a shame because I do really love the brand. Grew up with it.

Copy of the judge's order:

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF SOUTH CAROLINA
CHARLESTON DIVISION
IN ADMIRALTY
Stephen Owen and Dhevatara)
Beach Seychelles, Ltd.,
Plaintiffs,

vs. ) CIVIL ACTION 2:09-2979-DCN

Bertram Yacht, Inc. and
MarineMax, Inc.,
Defendants.
______________________________)
CONSENT ORDER PROHIBITING SALVAGE OF P/Y ABSOLUTELY
UPON MOTION of Plaintiffs, owners of the P/Y ABSOLUTELY, with consent of Defendant Bertram Yacht, Inc., Defendant MarineMax, Inc. having not yet appeared, and after due consideration; it is
HEREBY ORDERED, AJUDGED, AND DECREED that Plaintiffs, as owners of the P/Y ABSOLUTELY, reportedly sunk in the Atlantic Ocean 20 miles offshore at or near 33-24.181N 078-33.490W ("wreck"), having duly declined salvage assistance, shall have sole unrestricted access to the wreck and the near ocean waters necessary for environmental response and wreck removal; and it is
FURTHER ORDERED that the Defendants remain free to search for the vessel and to photograph it if found on the condition that the Plaintiffs be immediately notified of the location of the vessel; and it is
FURTHER ORDERED that, once the wreck is located and before the wreck is disturbed, Plaintiffs and Defendants shall be given opportunity to inspect and photograph the wreck; and it is
FURTHER ORDERED that all other parties are prohibited from touching, disturbing, or salvaging the wreck and from interfering with Plaintiffs' search and response efforts.
SO ORDERED at Charleston, South Carolina this ____ day of November, 2009.
____________________________
DAVID C. NORTON, JUDGE
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

WE SO MOVE:

JOHN HUGHES COOPER, P.C.
By: /s John Hughes Cooper
JOHN HUGHES COOPER, ESQUIRE
Federal Court ID 298
South Carolina Bar 1387
State Bar of Georgia 185986
1808 Middle Street
Post Office Box 395
Sullivan's Island, SC 29482
ATTORNEYS FOR PLAINTIFFS

WE CONSENT:

BUIST MOORE SMYTHE & McGEE, P.A.
By: /s David M. Collins
Federal Court ID 223
5 Exchange Street
Charleston, SC 29401
P.O. Box 999
Charleston, SC 29402
ATTORNEYS FOR DEFENDANT,
BERTRAM YACHT, INC.

PDF file of Curd Buoy specs and diagram.

I'd have to say perhaps #2.

But it's hard to believe just hitting a buoy like that could have done that much damage even with lousy construction.

And then other than the marks on the strut I don't see any other indications that it hit something in the water that could do that kind of damage. It seems like you would see some indications of a hit lower on the bow and hull.

So I'm not real sure either way.

Anybody think that the running gear damage could have been caused by the anchor gear? It is possible that as the bow "came apart" the anchor gear (anchor and chain) may have run along the hull before the boat came to a complete stop?

Take that as an emphatic no.

It appears to me like the mast of the buoy opened her up like a can opener - then once she was breached and stuffed in a wave, it's all over. Once structure is gone, boat hits bottom transom sheers off - very understandable. It is pretty apparent buoy was impacted, and for a propellor to mark it, it must have been centered, consistent with center bow being punctured. Also, only explanation for severe running gear damage is to run over something hard (like chain and or underwater section of center pole) at speed - NO WAY that strut (and rudder) get's that kind of damage by hitting soft bottom. The running gear proves to me beyond a reasonable doubt this boat ran something over - what happened next can be debated.