Bertram 630 Sportfish Sinks?

That would be the financier (hopefully it's not his in-laws ).

Given the disparity between posts 148/149 and 189 that video should be interesting as should the answer to Capt. Tom's inquiry with Bertram. Seems to me that the only things known for sure are that the owner currently owns an artificial reef and the captain is incurring legal expenses, not sleeping well and probably not finding much work.

K1W1, it was a 2006, which now begs the question "is it still under warranty"?

According to Bertram's website:

"Bertram stands strongly behind its product and is so confident that it is announcing a limited warranty that will now be extended to two years on manufacturer built construction and encompasses five years for the yacht’s hull and fiberglass structural components."

So yes, a hull coming apart due to build quality should still be under warranty on a 2006........It is also quite possible that this 2006 was still a "new" boat and this was the first registered owner.

Capt J,
I believe it was a first owner situation. MarineMax had it for a few years, not sure if it sat during that time either at dock or on hard, or if the boat was used as a demo boat.

Then all new warranties should apply if he was the first registered owner.

I ship a lot of yachts on Yachtpath, Dockwise, and Seven Star. Every yacht I have seen that foreign owners have bought, they have not had any financing on the vessel. It's very hard to get a boat financed when purchasing it in another country. They may pay cash and then finance it, once it arrives in their home country sometimes, that I don't know.

What I've heard locally is that (like most independents) he had none. Even if he did there could be exclusions for negligent actions however.

Personally, I think the boats going to get raised to determine cause by the owner and whether it is a warranty issue. Just from what I've seen going on with Bertram hulls coming apart......without hitting things.......I would lean in that favor......Last time a Viking hull delaminated was a few years ago and it hit a WHALE, and I haven't heard of any Hatteras' coming apart in recent years......

Which is kind of interesting since this sinking occurred just a couple of miles outside the Right Whale 10 knot speed zone.

Yeah but the last 630 Bertram that came apart a year ago was nowhere near a whale or anything else for that matter, and it replaced the owners 57' Bertram (that was coming apart also, the stringers were seperating from the bulkhead just like the 2005 57' Bertram I was running did, and the 63' was his warranty replacement boat, not a good track record the way I see it.)

That's just it, what insurance does the captain have? I enquired a few times about getting a professional liability policy as a freelance captain. People always said "We'll see what's available and call you back." and they never do. For 20 years, whether for delivery or long term placement. I have always been under the vessels insurance, except when I worked for National Liquidators. When doing seizures and repos, I was on National Liquidators insurance. That's why I bring up Marine Max's policy. If the captain has more than a casual relationship with Marine Max, it may be their insurance that he is under. I seriously doubt he has a policy of his own for his personal/professional liability. He also holds responsability for it leaving uninsured. It means he failed at his pre-voyage document check. From my seat so far, and this is just on information from this thread, if the statements made here about the captains salesman and other relationship with Marine Max, they should make it right. They are the professionals in the business and are held to the higher standard by juries. I also believe that Marine Max will step up to the plate and most likely their insurance will end up taking care of a large portion if not all of it before it goes to court if that's what MM wants. In a better economy, they may be best to make it right out of pocket. If you pay true cost on one of those, you'd be amazed how cheap you can buy one. Deep Deep Deep Discount is what he'll get the new one at. If not I'll be a bit disappointed in the industry.

Of course Bertram is going to defend it's name and reputation - rightfully so. What do you guys expect!? If they sit back and let the "keyboard cowboys" in this group and others speculate with absolutely no basis of fact, these same cowboys will squeal how they have not responded. Nothing wrong with free speech, but when some speculate to the detriment of a company, it's employees, customers, suppliers, etc - who wins? what is it you are trying to do - drive another mfg out of business? I know, i know all the yachts / boats that the "keyboard cowboys" run are perfect & built like brick sxxt houses - and they never ever take their eyes off watch, nor do their mates - and they always preplan the route along with double checking all navaids & hazards - and never using such as a "quick waypoint" on a deadly accurate chartplotter. BTW - I am new to this site - and I am surprised at the fact that the YF moderator is a biased "cowboy" himself? So I guess I shouldn't be surprised at the general tone and bias - kinda like the inmates running the asylum -
not associated with ANY marine mfg - flame suit on

That's the primary reason one buys E&O and PL policies, to cover liabilities, such as Errors and Ommissions which by definition are negligent actions/inactions. Gross Negligence may be excluded or may not depending on the respondants relationship to the policy holder. Say in a case like this, and I'm not implying gross negligence, just using a situational example... If the captain was determined an employee of MM and was culpable of Gross Negligence, then the insurer for MM would pay. Since Gross Negligence requires...basically an attitude... and I don't see that here, I don't think that applies here. He does hold common negligence though in that he left uninsured, that was very bad, he should not have, even with a hold harmless, have done that. An example from the oilfield. Tool pusher sent a roughneck up the tower to do a quick repair job that was holding up drilling. He sent him up without the proper training and gear and the guy got killed. At that point, there was Common Negligence. When the tool pusher was being deposed, the lawyer was really digging at the guy and he finally blurted out "yes I knew it was dangerous but we were losing money by the minute!". At that point the claim entered into Gross Negligence territory

There is only one "fault" I have found here and that is that the captain left the dock with an uninsured vessel. As to a manufacturers defect, I'm not even speculationg. Right now I'm undecided because I have seen absolutely no evidence. Even if the captain did jump down into the Galley for a minute longer than expected, that falls under the heading "accidents happen" and that's why we have insurance. Since most captains are insured through the vessel, it is doubly important to the captain to make sure he is insured as well as the vessel. However, the vessel departed the dock with improper insurance documents for the voyage being undertaken, and that is not an accident. That is an error, and when it goes to court, that is what the plaintiffs lawyer is going to dig at, because he's going to call in a dozen expert witnessess and quote the prevoyage checklists from a few companies that show under "Documents" all your insurance documentation is listed to check.

Now, assuming that evidence shows damage to the running gear (there are 2 conflicting accounts of this, so it's not a given, just an "assumed") or hull congruent with hitting a bouy, the question becomes, who is liable for the captains mistake? We don't really have the evidence to make the proper legal determination, and it sounds like it may be complex. I think MM stands to be the biggest loser in this whole scenario.

Or it could still be a defective hull, and if so it should be a warranty claim and the captain is exonerated from hitting the bouy but he is not exonerated from leaving the dock without proper insurance bound and in place.

Everybody is always about driving the boat and making mistakes there, but rarely are those the mistakes that really matter. As captain driving the boat is about 5% of my duty load, and it's the easy fun 5% too. Making sure all your documentation is in place is a standard part of a professionals presail check list. When you accept money to provide a service, you are considered a professional under the law and you are held to the standards of one.

If that makes me a squealing cowboy, so be it. The Capt made an error, the question is"Who is going to answer for it?"

Speculation is a wonderful thing. It teaches beyond what the actual circumstance may. However, the last several posts have assumed speculation to be fact. WE DO NOT KNOW THAT THE BOAT WAS UNINSURED. We do not KNOW that the captain made any mistakes. From what I've read the closest thing to fact seems to be that the boat sank and the letter from Bertram. That letter is in direct contradiction of Capt. Tom's post #189 however. (Tom, looking forward to their response to your inquiry).
As for a captain being negligent for taking out an uninsured boat, not even close. How many of us check to see if an insurance policy is in effect? Do we also check to see if it is valid and what circumstances it does and doesn't cover? There is no legal requirement for a boat to be insured. That's between the owner, his wallet and the financier.

No need to shout.


The owner's attorney made the following statement in a communciation on November 20.

"As far as I know, the vessel was not insured for this voyage. However, our inquiries are not complete. The vessel may be insured by the seller, the delivery captain, or others."

Does that mean it carried no insurance; was only insured down to New Bern or Charleston until after 11/15; that they were not covered below a certain point for named or numbered storms yet covered for non-weather related mishaps? Too many open questions for a blanket statement. Was the captain employed by MM or the owner? If the captain was employed by MM, was he in fact acting in his capacity as a representative of MM (both unlikely)? Did he hit a buoy (as seems a real possibility) or a low floating uncharted object like a container, log, whale, etc. Who else has video? (I assume that Bertram was not the only one to put a diver down.) The difference between delamination and a cave in from a strike should be quite apparent. Is there yellow paint on the bow or running gear? Were I the captain I be darned sure to have my own diver down unless I was pretty sure his findings would work against me. The owner and insurance company (if there is one) certainly have a vested interest. I'd expect there to be a party above the wreck with divers bumping into each other below.

BTW, I believe that boat has a fuel capacity of about 1100 gals. and would have only burned off a couple hundred if it came out of the Wrightsville area. That's a lot of diesel sitting down there. Anything happening on that front?

The boat holds a hell of a lot more then 1100 gallons. The 57' Bertram I was running held 1700 gallons and the 63' would probably holds 1849 gallons

As for the insurance everyone is talking about. As a Captain, all you can do is advise the owner that he should have insurance. If the owner chooses to not insure his vessel, it is not illegal to operate the vessel, or illegal for a Captain to run an un-insured passanger vessel. However it's un-wise. But, there are owners out there that will not insure their vessel, and that is life. There are a lot of vessels out there that are not insured for the area they're operating in, don't have insurance, or are under insured. Look at all of the vessel's being repossessed, if they're not paying their monthly payment on the boat they're surely not paying the insurance either. If the vessel is paid for in cash, there is no insurance requirement even though there should be. Also if the owner made several million to pay for the vessel, he should be smart enough to choose whether or not he should insure that vessel.

The boat holds 1800 gal. & he topped off in Wrightsville