Bertram 630 Sportfish Sinks?

"BTW, how many of us plot our courses on paper so we can see the full detail or at least zoom in and backtrack our plotted course to check mile by mile what doesn't show on the large scale view?"

I know I try to do that one way or the other. Seen to many people, even licensed captains, not do it and have it come back to bite them.

That's why I still like to spread the paper out to get a good big picture look at the areas I'll be passing through. And then zoom in for all the extra details.

Bertram 630

Does anyone know how far the boat is from the bouy? I wouldn't think it would travel much distance if it hit a bouy and knocked a hole in the bow. The insurance co. will salvage a vessel if they think fraud is involved or like the other person said, if there are other liabilities. Eighty feet is workable for air bags.

I don't think there's any fraud here, only a possible subrogation issue against the manufacturer and /or dealer depending on who supplied the captain. The vessels insurance covers the captain if the owner hired them. They'll make the decision whether to salvage or not most likely based on the divers report & video and any evidence that was collected. Considering the salvage operation will cost between $150,000 and $400,000 depending on the location of and current market for derrick barges, if it looks probable something was struck (regardless of what it was, it's irrelevant to them), and from the divers report published here that's what happened, it's doubtful that it will be recovered.

The Capt was hired by the new owner. He is a freelancer that did (on occasion) work for Marine Max doing deliveries

He also does sales for them and maintains an e-mail account through them.

Well, the owners insurance company (if it's not the same as) may try to subrogate part of the cost from Marine Max's insurance, probably settle around a third of the claim.

Update - Dec 11, 2009...

Heard from my source today and got an update on the situation. The yacht was found and is in an upright position, with the port prop/strut buried but the starboard gear visible and appears to look okay. Divers followed a path in the sea floor and say the boat has moved and been pulled around for about 1,000 feet. Not sure when this happened, either right when she sank or continues due to currents.

The yacht will probably not be raised at this time. Not sure why, but then again, who will incur the cost? Funny thing, I was told that there is no identifiable insurance company that will cover it or the other expenses. Hmmm.

As the story goes, the yacht was launched on Long Island, and was planned to be cruised to Newport, loaded on a ship and sailed to the Indian Ocean. It was later understood that the transport company could not pick her up in Newport but down in Florida, so off she went on her soon-to-be-realized final cruise. But oops, someone overlooked the task of getting an insurance rider to cover the trip, so apparently there was no coverage on the yacht. Doesn't mean that MarineMax or Bertram or some other party can't cover it, but not sure.

Also, this source said they have seen photos and videos of the yacht and does not feel that it hit something (I know, speculative again and not by an engineer but someone close to the situation). As explained, the bow was impacted including a large area of forward deck area. Also, there was damage to the transom, and part or all of it was missing.

More was told but do not want to publish yet. I contacted Bertram and left a message, waiting for a return call. So don't expect to see a barge/crane offshore salvaging a yacht. But you may have a new wreck to fish on.

More to come...

Capt Tom

“the starboard gear visible and appears to look okay”
“no identifiable insurance company”
"they have seen photos and videos of the yacht and does not feel that it hit something”
These are direct contradictions to post numbers 149 & 148. Bertrams response should be interesting.

I think that given the all around circumstances of this deal, that MarineMax should come up to the plate, how much depends on the level of service and coordination they were providing. They are the professionals in the business, it's really on them to make sure that their client is covered. If it was indeed an oversight to not have specific insurance in place then MM and the broker/salesman also have some culpability in that oversight. As for PR and and future business, it would stand to reason that standing behind this customer would be a good thing. Nothing brings people to your door like a good "after the sale" reputation.

I have a feeling that something is going to get worked out and he'll get a replacement boat at a deep deep deep discount.

MarineMax might have very well informed the owner that he needed an insurance ryder to cover the boats trip and the owner refused to purchase it. The owner does, have to pay for and purchase insurance for his vessel in order for the vessel to be covered, MarineMax cannot.

I ran a boat to CT from FL once and his insurance started in Cape May. He did get a ryder, but it was pretty pricey AND it had a 10% deductible.

I'm sure a boker would mention insurance; certainly the bank would. That however is where their responsibility ends. Can't imagine Marine Max giving away a free 63' Bertram because a manufacturer or an independent captain screwed up. I've known several owners who moved their boats south without riders despite being told that it is a way bad idea.

I think I have the answer:
November 5th NASA satellite photgraph of a massive 12 mile long ice berg off the Australian....ummm, Noth Carolina coast.....

(just trying to lighten the discussion a little)

That's cold, Dave...Cold!

Marmot, you called it early on, and now it's more or less confirmed.
Feel free to pick up your prize, 20 miles off the coast in 80 feet of water.

I think there is a misconception that an insurance company pays a claim and that's the end of it. This sounds like a fault situation (either Bertram or captain error). If that proves to be the case one of them is going to be on a very big hook with either the owner or the insurance company holding the rod. For the price of a 63 Bertram I wouldn't expect an insurance company to just take the loss. Stockholders object to that.

But Ed,
If there was no insurance and I would have to assume a lot of that responsibility or choice rests with the owner, then there is nothing to pay out. And if video/photos can show builder's negligence, then builder and owner work out a settlement. If said video/photos show evidence of hitting an object, and with no insurance, the owner may just walk away from it.
But I have to guess that since there is fuel and oil on board, the Coast Guard will have a say in if it is rasied or not, but at who's expense? The owners I pressume.

The way I see it, if you run aground mid-channel or hit something free-floating them's the breaks. If you run aground outside the channel or run over a charted nav. aid that's negligence unless there's a real good excuse. Not having insurance would be foolish and I'm sure the financier would have an interesting discussion with the owner, but why would anybody accept a maybe $2M loss for someone else's negligence whether that be the manufacturer or captain. I'm curious if the CG will charge for the nav aid. I once got billed for a streetlight that failed to get out of my way (youthful indiscretion).

Hi,

Ed- If the guy owned the boat outright and as it was going to be exported to the Indian Ocean this is probably the case I would think that there is no financier involved other than the guy who stumped up the cash to buy it in the first place.

If it proves to have fallen apart after hitting something hard in the water then he has limited chance of getting anything out of anyone except his delivery captain, if on the other hand it fell apart during normal operations then there would be grounds for a warranty claim against the manufacturers- I am assuming it is or was a brand new boat.

Given the recent well publicised de lamination problems experienced by one of this brand of boat, I would guess that any sign of this being the cause will be pursued vigorously by the artificial reef Owner.

Well, there's a couple of potential complications with this where if they apply, could very well be found by a jury to put some level of liability on the broker.
First thing is that the captain isn't exactly independent, he has a complex multi faceted relationship with the brokerage house including sales if the info in this thread is correct. The other factor is what level service was being handled by the broker. Did they arrange for the delivery of the vessel to South Africa? You are assuming that there is a financier involved when there is a very good chance this was a cash customer. There was also a post here stating that the insurance lack was an oversight due to a last minute change in ship itinerary and that insurance for the run to Newport was bound. Was this insurance arranged by the broker? If the owner declined insuring the vessel, then I agree, it's all on him, but.... Brokers often add considerable service to a deal, and these services incur liability. If the broker was handling or advising on the delivery for the owner, which would not be uncommon, this may very well get paid on by the brokers E&O or PL coverage on their business insurance. As I said, it depends on the service relationship between the broker and client. If he plunked down cash and asked them if they could arrange to get it to S.A. and they agreed to, well then a jury is going to find in the buyers favor. Even if it was a "Do you know a captain to get the boat to the ship for me?","Yes we do..." there is going to be some level of liability on the broker.