Benetti vs Westport

Excellent points and I don't know a captain, although I'm sure there are some desperate ones, who would take the job on the basis that the owner and family were going to do all the crew work. First, maintaining clarity that it is the captain who is in charge, it's his boat when he's there, could be problematic. Second, he's responsible, and having untrained people could prevent him from doing a good job.

If the owner and family took care of all interior work, I could see a crew of three or four being able to handle the rest. You comment on the number of systems and I think people tend to underestimated the number of things an engineer manages. The four engines are just a part of it.

Lol. As a captain on an 84, driving the boat is the easy part. Keeping everything running when in the Exumas for weeks at a time on the hook is the challenge. Not just the mains and gens but water maker, TVs, wifi etc... guests and their kids have to be able to post those stupid selfies with the pigs after all

I just redid the whole AV system to make it more user friendly with new remotes etc. Even laminated instructions sheets in each room which... nobody reads! Guess who gets called when the "tv doesn't work"

We do both charters and owners trips but frankly it makes no difference in the efforts we put in. With owners, it is a less formal and if something fails well... it s their boat so it s not a much a problem as if it is a charter.

There is big difference between being able to fix something and actually doing it while the rest of your family is going to a beaufiful beach...

That's the point either we're not making or he wants to fix and not enjoy the destinations or the cruise. He doesn't seem to mind that he may never come up from the engine room. However, if that's what one wants to do, then why own, why not just get a paying job doing it. Doesn't mean anything wrong with it, but just not something most of us can associate with.

Maybe we're just lazy and if called such we don't care. We did our own housekeeping and laundry (well, my wife did mostly) our first four years of marriage while she went to college. Then we stopped. We're fully capable but we don't do our own housekeeping at home or on the boat. Call us lazy but then I look at it another way. If I want to work, I could consult. I currently consult only about three or four times a year for a day at a time and charge $1250 an hour, $10000 for a day for my wife and me. That is highly specialized work. If I was seeking other clients I'd charge at least $500 an hour. So, until the cost of housekeeping increases 20 fold or so, it's not tempting work for me. I worked years to afford boating, not to afford working on a boat.

My wife, when she has a desire to work, does volunteer consulting for schools and others. Teaching, and especially teaching reading, is her love. Housekeeping is not.

You're talking two different worlds of boat building. You're not just talking 2 1/2 years vs 1 year but many additional decisions and, in my opinion, a person engaged by you regularly in the Heesen factory (I'd also visit Westport regularly but not as constant). You're talking decisions you aren't qualified or educated enough to make at this point during the build.

As to the differences in the Heesen 4200 and the WP 130, you're talking a significant size difference to get the extra features you like in. Perhaps the next Westport will fill that in. Meanwhile though there's a trade off for everything. That beach club comes from the lazarette and the Engineer's cabin of the WP is eliminated. As to the tenders on the bow, that's a trade off of usable area. On the Heesen you pick up the use of the deck where they're placed on the Pilothouse Deck but then you relinquish the bow gathering and sitting area. I personally prefer garages which neither has and I understand why as that tradeoff would be substantial. However, on the Heesen I could see turning the beach club into dual purpose garage/beach club as many do.

I can say this. While we're not contemplating a next build to replace our 130, if we were contemplating that or larger, it would likely be either a Westport or a Heesen, and most likely a Westport if they had what we wanted simply because we prefer fiberglass to Aluminum. The other builder we'd give some consideration to would be Burger.

The Website is still up and running. Unfortunately we also had a bad experience with them. The original MD is not there anymore. Hopefully things will change but i think the damage has been done.

I was at a Benetti Yachtmaster conference several months ago and there has been changes in the structure within the company. Unfortunately Benetti has a reputation for issues but they are trying to rectify it

Moonen's situation is a reminder that buying a boat isn't just a hobby. It's also a business transaction. Every day people order boats from builders that if these same people were operating within their business world they would check out the financials and ownership thoroughly before entering into a contract. In business, if you're entering into a $25 million or greater contract, you check everything out and you also don't just accept the contract handed to you. You have a lawyer review it and make changes and build in protections. There are things you can do. Then there is the ultimate protection. You walk away and go elsewhere.

None of these issues are shockers to those in the know. Just in the brief time I've been involved with larger boats, I can name at least 5 builders that I've noted to myself or others not to go near based on financial, legal, or ownership issues before even becoming aware of the quality and delivery problems. Also, people repeat their patterns. If someone has a history of financial damage to others, they will do it to you as well. People who lack ethics or integrity do not suddenly change.

It's good they understand. However, I'm not sure they understand what it will take to rectify it. It's not a tweak here and there as people often think. It's changing a culture and way of operating from the top down and making quality and service your most critical goals, even when it costs you initially. And, in a situation such as Benetti, you have to be so obvious in the changes that people observe and talk about it.

Read and read again Olderboater's words of wisdom. Pure gold!

CODECASA 43 Full Beam – Vintage Series – Hull C122

Based on the responses to my queries, which were similar to yours, and lots of thinking about those responses, you should consider a fully crewed WP 130. It looks like I am gonna get a WP112, but I plan on fewer guests. Having said this, remember I am a novice about yachts. Airplanes? I can claim to be an expert, but boats? Novice, so be warned about anything I say.
I must say, the responses to your opening questions are exceptionally done. Kudos to all.

Some visual levity on the subject.

Perfect.

Don't forget to check out the Bosses other baby; www.JetForums.net

The problem is not to rectify the problems. They can do that in Italy no problem better then anybody else.
What they have in Italy and the resources are beyond belief and second to none.
The problem is to solve the problems out of Italy. It is in reality a problem of the yachting industry as a whole.
Some of these popular brands appear global as your Toyota and BMW but in reality the yachting industry is still a cottage craft one.

Also Capt.J is incorrect when comparing Benetti as an Azimut on steroids. The Azimut-Benetti Group has three / four distinct parts.
1. Azimut sub 80 build in Aviglianna, very industrialized structure and automotive based
2. Azimut over 80 feet in Viareggio part of x-Lusben craft. It is not a very little industrialized construction and is semi custom. Customers can have a lot of inputs on build.
3. GRP Benetti build in Viareggio again in part of the x-Lusben. Same as above.
4. Steel alloy Benettis. Some of them build Viareggio sub 55 meter and the rest in Livorno.
It is very important to point out that work force and sub-contractors in the above four units do not intercede and are distinct.

Hulls of 2 and 3 are layed in Fano at the x-Siar Mochini which in the 90s was one of the most advanced GRP construction places World wide.
Before Azimut-Benetti bought the site they also build some of the first Ferretti Customline series.

Benetti to become top drawer has a problem and IMO this is because 70% (a figure I think it might be more) of its builds are sold when under speculation construction by a broker.
So most of the yachts they sell sub fifty meters are sold when under construction.
Anyways sales wise this had made wonders for them, with the trade off being that quality is not always to desired expectation by the client.

Liam, I am talking of the sub 50 meters. They are launched with a lot of issues and not a lot of quality control with how things like wiring, plumbing and stuff like that is run. I've spoken to someone who works for the factory and says we need to change this because it's not run right, or change that because there's a better way, but they don't change anything. They have a lot of issues after the sale. I've run a few and on the 98' they have a waterproof door to access under the flybridge dash, the thing must weigh 75 lbs, it has the brackets and hinges on it, but they never mounted the hinges to the boat, so you turn the handle and the thing falls right on your feet or on the teak and damages it, because they can't mount the hinges. Same boat, go in some of the guest heads, they're very wide.......yet they mount the toilet 10" from the shower so when you're sitting on it your knee is pressed against the shower door on one side, and there's 3' on the other side to the vanity. A lot of wiring issues as well. They are no Westport or Hatteras.

We work on just a few small Azimuts up here.
Oil changes on Cat power, small option repairs.
FL Detroit gets the MTUs.

I can see some interesting design efforts around these boats. The factory just ran over some of these.

I have survived lack of design for installation of basic systems under the decks.
I have survived lack of poor factory installation of basic systems under the decks also.

We have learned to pass on A/C and plumbing issues on these boats.
The A/C flex duct is never supported and falls off the back of the returns. You can't get to the fallen duct.

We point the old and later model owners back to M/M.
They are usually not to happy to hear us say that.

I would comment that every factory work morning is like a Monday morning, Every factory work afternoon is like a Friday afternoon.
Oh, long lunches.

US Yacht (Bayliner motor yachts) built them tighter.

Was on a brand new 90 foot Benetti in the Ft Lauderdale or Miami boat show a few years ago. Nice young captain. Asked the sales person, if I could buy with Cats, think it had Cummins. Anyway engine room too small. Fast forward 6 months.
We were in the yard and there comes this new Benetti. Blew a fan belt on one engine. Engine was so close to the bulkhead that they could not change a fan belt. Really?? Had to haul the boat, loosen the shaft, lift the engine, etc. A $200 fan belt change was over $25,000. Saw young captain in the yard. He quit during the haul out. Cummins was blaming Benetti, Benetti blaming Cummins. Engineering?? Never found out who paid. What happens next time or two years from now?

I just saw this post, that’s how busy I have been. Which plane is it? The HondaJet? An amazing revolutionary design.