Bad Experience with Sea Tow; Sag Harbor

Hi Ken. Out of curiosity, why did you not try to get the owner to make the decisions regarding which company to use? Was he in shock or something? As a third party / good Samaritan do you have any authority to direct operations on his behalf?

Please don't take the above as a criticism, I am interested for my own education. I think what you guys did was admirable.

“I don't really think it is ethical to how they can claim a percentage of the vessel's value and this and that.”

There really isn’t anything unethical about it, salvage is the process someone undertakes at their own risk in order to save the owner and/or insurer part of a loss. The relatively small percentage of the value of the vessel that makes up a salvage award is far less than a total loss might be. If the salvor undertakes a great risk to save the vessel and its cargo he is rewarded with a much larger award and that is not unreasonable.

“It should be more a time and materials basis when the entire salvage is done in 1/2 a day and the vessel could sit where it's at for a few days with no further damage.”

The owner or captain has the option of contracting for services on that basis. If the crew abandons the vessel or accepts a salvage agreement rather than “tough it out” it’s not reasonable to claim the salvor is unethical or taking unfair advantage. If that ½ day is spent near the eyewall of a category 5 hurricane with a flooded engine room, it might be a very good option to take the only source of rescue available. How much do you think it would be worth to be towed out of harm’s way in that case? What might the outcome be if no salvor were available?

“I have seen a few tow companies claim a salvage on a vessel when it was nothing more then throwing a portable pump in the boat and towing it to a yard to be hauled out, which is not fair to the owner IMO.”

Well, that is one of those times when an informed owner might have saved himself and the insurance company a bundle. He could have contracted a boat service to deliver a pump and done the pumping himself then negotiated the price of a tow. He could also have contacted his insurance company to have them contract services for him.

These issues are all the subject of that ship’s management class I referred to earlier. It is part of a master’s shipkeeping responsibility to have at least a passing knowledge of laws and procedures in order to avoid what might become a very costly learning experience in a very poor classroom.

Read some of Farley Mowatt's books on the feats of Foundation Martime's tugs in the North Atlantic and let me know if you think those guys were unethical or took unfair advantage. Not quite apples to apples but the laws are the same and the money lost or saved is still real money.

Like being a captain there are days when you feel you should be paying the owner and days when there is just not enough money in the world to make it worth it. A salvor sometimes has a gravy job, but then there are the others (and a lot of them). If he oversteps there are always the courts. I knew of a case where a tow company laid a piece of canvas over a hole at, but above, a water line and covered it with a piece of plywood. Time 1 hour, materials about $20. Charge $120,000. That ended up in court and settled. Owning a yacht is not cheap.
Question: "Does anyone know if the salvor used flotation bags to get the boat to the beach? Or did they just tow it semisubmerged?" I think that I (and a few others) are about to learn something. What's the story there?

"What's the story there?"

Not much of a story really. If the salvor had to use bags to hold the boat afloat in order to tow it an attorney could make the point that without that effort the vessel would have been lost in deep water or the cost to recover would have been far higher and worthy of a larger award. If the boat was just towed to shallow water and beached with no particular effort or risk the insurer might make the case that the vessel was not at any further risk when the salvor took the tow so the award might be much much less.

That $120K hole is a good one. I can see the argument that with a hole at the waterline, any rolling or deterioration of the weather would place the vessel at risk of loss and the salvor's efforts assured the security of the vessel and its crew. The pity is the crew probably (don't know the details or size of hole so can't say for certain) could have or should have been able to deal with that type of damage control themselves. Again, basic seamanship instead of cellphone salvation.

The boat in Sag was in safe waters between about 4 & 15' deep, but I understand the theory. Thanks. The hole case was ballsy. She was tied in a slip and in very little risk, but it was around the time of Andrew when salvers were gods in the eyes of the insurance companies.
Boat US put out some very good info on salvage vs; towing about a year ago written pretty much in english (not legaleeze) which I copied for my boss. Certain subtleties every captain need to know of course, but when in doubt put the decision into the hands of the owner and his lawyer. If you feel pressure to act and lives are not at risk realize that if the boat is sunk so probably is your career. CYA.

"if the boat is sunk so probably is your career."

I hate to debunk your theory, but I can name at least 3 big boat captains who have run aground or sunk their boats and went on to drive bigger boats! The old joke is if you want to drive a bigger boat, then sink your present one. Personally I hope not to test the theory.

And to all you perfect Capt's, don't forget the one where one Capt. says to the other "i've never run aground" and the other Capt. responds "you just have not been driving long enough, because eventually everyone does"

"if you want to drive a bigger boat, then sink your present one." I know that applies to military and political promotions, but I'm not so sure about boats. I haven't met those three captains, but, like you, I think I'll pass on testing that theory. I do know of one who made a bit of news and the last I heard he was selling shoes.

The third party had no business telling anyone to stand off or try to negociate for any services. If it's not your vessel you have no say. the resposibility to remove the vessel, and spil containment is that of the owner, and the insusrance company. The vessel was unmanned. The first company to arrive gets the job if they decide they want it. They are not required to salvage the vessel or contain a spill. The only thing they have to do is assist people in the water. At least that's how I understand it work.

We should let the courts decide who was right or wrong and to what extent in the unlikely event this thing even goes that far.

The species know as seaman carries a gene that focuses his attention on results. He makes things happen and finds ways to achieve a successful outcome when under threat or stress. This is the origin of the term "jury rig." Save the crew, save the cargo, save the ship and get it to port is how this gene has effected the actions of seamn since the first caveman used a log to float across a river. The legal aspects of a seagoing venture were left to others, the ones who gave us the word "average."

Just as that part of our emotional heritage that used to keep us safe from saber toothed tigers now gives us heart attacks and strokes, a seaman's traditional focus on the mechanics of his craft conflicts with a world now roamed by sharks in pin-stripe suits. Like it or not, we sail on a different sea than our predecessors and our first instincts might no longer be enough to keep us afloat.

Just for the sake of discussion though, if the bystander had put a line on the wreck I think he would have had every right to negotiate. He might also have responsibility for costs if the delay caused by his negotiations led to further losses or damage.

Was the wreck resting on the bottom in shallow water and all the damage that could be done was already done? If that were the case lying alongside with a line on the wreck may have given the insurance company plenty of time to contract for a recovery.

We don't know enough to assign responsibility for anything yet but the questions this incident raises should make everyone who might find himself in a similar position want to learn as much as possible about the possible consequences of his actions or orders.

"seaman carries a gene that focuses his attention on results. He makes things happen and finds ways to achieve a successful outcome when under threat or stress. This is the origin of the term "jury rig." Save the crew, save the cargo, save the ship and get it to port is how this gene has effected the actions of seamn since the first caveman used a log to float across a river. The legal aspects of a seagoing venture were left to others, the ones who gave us the word "average."
Very, very well put. Of course save the ship comes before save the cargo. I know you meant that but I figured I mention it before someone made a big deal over it.
"a seaman's traditional focus on the mechanics of his craft conflicts with a world now roamed by sharks in pin-stripe suits."
"we sail on a different sea than our predecessors and our first instincts might no longer be enough to keep us afloat" That is so unfortunately true.
Kind of takes the fun out of it.

"Of course save the ship comes before save the cargo. I know you meant that but I figured I mention it before someone made a big deal over it."

I gave that a bit of thought before pecking it out. In the new world order, the cargo is generally far more valuable than the ship. It doesn't take much damage to make a vessel a "total constructive loss" these days and a few containers or a tank of crude or product may now be worth more in intrinsic value or liability than the vessel itself.

Unless there is a shortage of replacement vessels, the cost to repair a broken one are so high, it is like putting big money in fixing an old car ... at the end you just have an old car that cost more than it's worth. Keep it afloat until the cargo can be saved and let it go to the bottom or the breakers.

Your point is still quite correct though, I had to think hard about the priority and suppress the gene that was screaming "save the ship." The insurance will provide a new "bottom" and if the cargo is saved the company will put it on the new one and I won't have to keep this old rustbucket going anymore.

You're probably right. Boy is it hard to surpress that gene. It probably won't be long before save the crew drops in the list too. (I can hear the lawyers: 'they might sue us for putting them on an unsafe ship or for injuries sustained, a death claim is cheaper. Get the cargo and don't look back.' ).

"It probably won't be long before save the crew drops in the list too."

You really don't want to get me started on that subject! Aside from the political value of good publicity, it really hasn't been the highest priority for government agencies. the RNLI is probably so good because it is made up of humans acting because they care, not bureaucrats and politicians. Seamen save seamen because that is part of who and what what they are. The lawyers and politicians use that for their own purposes and if the odd sailor gets rescued then good for them. It has only been very recently that politicians have been shamed into working to prevent disasters rather than express their regrets in clever sound bites.

Early in my sailing career after spending the day trying to keep the lights on, the fires lit, and most of the steam inside the pipes I would retire to my stateroom to read or reread, among others, "Death Ship" by B. Traven. It is a great book for many reasons but aside from the best description of a deckie's impression of a fireroom I have ever read, it drills down to what a seaman really is (or was) worth in the bigger picture. Time for a reread I think.

You mean my boss doesn't love me and won't mourn my passing forever? I'm crushed.

More Bad News from Sea Tow

NY boaters need to think twice about going to Block Island. It appears that if a Sea Tow members boat from NY breaks down on Block Island Sea tow will tow you only to Pt. Judith, R.I. despite their membership booklet saying:“Multiple Area Towing: All members out of their home area will be towed by Sea Tow to the dock or facility that will best facilitate the repair or transportation of their boat, or to their home port if it is the adjacent Sea Tow Area.” Evidently they want to split that sentence to say that they will tow to the adjacent area only if it is your “home port” and not if it is the “facility that will best facilitate the repair”. If you want to go to Montauk they will tow you under you membership to within 8 miles of Montauk and then charge you over $1,000 for the last 8 miles.