Any liability for Captain aboard as a guest?

If you're a member of the crew, and off duty, you're still a member of the crew. In an emergency you are assumed called to duty. That's far different from being a passenger on a boat. It's the same as a doctor not being required to help. If you choose to provide your professional services though, do it right.

the quick answer is no, you, are not aboard in official capacity, "THE VESSELS Captain" carries the onus of responsibility.

COLREGS
Part A- General
Rule 2
Responsibility:

"(a) Nothing in theses rules shall exonerate any vessel,or the owner,master or crew thereof from the consequences of any neglect of any precaution which may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen, or by the special circumstances of the case.
(b) In consulting and complying with these Rules due regard shall be had to all dangers of navigation and collisoin and to any special circumstances including the limitations of the vessels involved which may make a departure from these rules necessary to avoid immediate danger"

I take this to mean that IF your are a Licensed Captain Regardles of your capacity (or the skippers credentials) on a vessel, it IS a responsibility to "speek up" if you witness the immediate precurser events of an incident that you COULD be held liable for some form of inaction to prevent the incident. This is where the grey area will become very evident, and I have no doubt that it WILL BE the lawers that will argue what is black and white and left to the jury to assign percentages of to blame to all persons involved.

The key word there are: "the owner,master or crew thereof ", not a...aboard. If you have no role in the operation of a vessel you have no responsibility, and good luck if you try to exert control of a vessel over the master or crew.

First, a passenger has no "capacity."

Second, any passenger interjecting his or her opinion or judgment of the master's action or inaction is interfering with a crewmember.

While it might feed the Walter Mitty fantasies of some to believe they have some responsibility or authority while onboard simply because they hold a certificate of some sort, I challenge anyone to provide a reference or citation that supports that fantasy.

Hi,

Having the opportunity to question 2 Captains who I am in the office with today I am informed that whilst sailing as a paying passenger there might well be an overwhelming urge to say something should it all be seen to be going pear shaped in advance there is no legal requirement to do so and certainly no legal responsibility to be born for not doing so.

There's lots of reference. It's called "mutiny".

On another scene, I just listened to an interview with an airline captain who crashed an MD-81, twenty years ago. The engines stopped just after take-off and at that point another captain who was a passenger rushed into the cockpit and asked if he could help the guys? They agreed he could assist with trying to restart and he remained there when the plane went down.

When the commission investigated the accident they said his move was against the rules, but because the crew accepted his help he may have assisted to the good outcome after all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_Airlines_Flight_751

I pose that point of view as a mere interpration of the rule, and belive that those would be questions for the lawers to hash out given the specific circumstances of an incident.
The ONLY reason I pose that point of view is that it is a fact that when you hold a License for professional/comercial porpose who are held to a higher standard of behavior for SOME circumstances whether on "duty or NOT".
ie;
blood alcahol levels
wether you hold a maretime, CDL vehicle, comercial pilots license, etc. you ARE required to addhere to Blood alcahol levels to the lower standard EVEN if you are NOT on "Duty".
SO I belive in the end it will be the lawers that will argue wether ANY liability is to be assigned given the individual circumstance.
I agree completely that if your are just a pasenger rendering your 2 cents it is tanamount to crew interference, I also belive that any of our opinoins can and perhaps most likely will be overridden by an overzelouse lawer and sympathtic jury.
After all jury's have been known to make huge awards for stupidity, Like the $300,000+ to the the lady who spilled hot cofee in her crotch, or the several million the guy who cutt off 8 of his fingertips when he picked up his lawn mower to trim his hedges.
Just points to think about ......thats all I am implying

In the end your liability will determind by the judicial system (Criminal or Civil ) and that the judgement and penalties will be final

Subject to apeal..... of course !!!

Actually, you are not held to higher standards "off duty". DUI here is .08 no matter what your profession or license. However, violating a law while "off duty" may bring penalties against your license. That's different than being held to a higher standard. Where the "higher standard" comes into play is that if you volunteer your services, those services better be up to professional standards. As for lawyers suing for anything, saying anything, and juries making rediculous or unjust awards, that's the legal system and I'll defer to Shakespere on that. " First.... "

And if the outcome had been negative, the findings would have been that an unauthorized person in the cockpit may have contributed to the accident because his presence did not allow the crew to follow approved company procedures in dealing with the incident and may have been a distraction.

FWIW, the CVR transcript doesn't indicate the guy did much besides shout a few times about electrical losses.

To Clarify;

In Illinois ( and I suspect some other states as well) you ARE legally held to a different standard. Here too the Blood alcahol level standard is .08 for civilians and .04 for comercial licenses AND if you hold a comercial license you ARE held to the .04 standard--- EVEN OFF DUTY if you are the operator of a vessel or vehical.
I advise anyone to know the local laws ( not just DUI )for the area they operate in

The captain interviewed did not sound as he was too happy about the other captain assisting but he still said it could have helped. I will not go into the unofficial version of this, but anyway, the commission stated that you are neither expected or allowed to enter the cockpit in this situation, even as in this case it was a uniformed SAS captain.

this getting too deep....so now when tiger invites me as a guest for a cruise on his yacht , i cannot get legally drunk because i have a c.g. ticket ?????

If you have something that shows where the State of Illinois has the authority to regulate federal license holders, I for one, would like to see it.

I believe the Illinois law states very clearly "commercial DRIVER's License" and does not mention USCG documents. It also only applies to the holder of a CDL when that person is driving a commercial vehicle, otherwise the .08 level applies. The .04 level is nationwide and is based on federal motor carrier law.

Being convicted of driving a boat or car with a BAC above .08 opens your other licenses to suspension or revocation but does not guaranty that you will lose them or even have them suspended.

Yeah, that's the reason not to get drunk on a boat.

The following was taken from this web site
http://www.illinoisduilawyer.com/whatwillhappentome.html


"I HAVE A COMMERCIAL DRIVER’S LICENSE (CDL). WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO ME?

•Under recent laws, your CDL license will be affected even if you are arrested for DUI while driving a non-commercial vehicle.
•If you are arrested for DUI while driving a non-commercial vehicle and refuse to take a breath test, you will receive a one-year disqualification of your CDL if it is your first DUI.
•If you are arrested for DUI while driving a non-commercial vehicle and are found guilty, you will receive a one-year disqualification for a first offense, even if you received court supervision.
•If you are found guilty of a second offense of DUI, you will receive a lifetime disqualification of your CDL."



I am looking into for how that applies to a Federal Maritime license in illinois and will post as soon as i get the information

As I wrote, a DUI for a commercial driver's license holder driving a private vehicle with .08 will trigger the possibility of CDL suspension. A CDL holder or USCG license holder or any other licensed person with a BAC of .04 driving his own car or boat (i.e in a non commercial operation) is not treated any differently than any other driver.

You seem to have ignored the little bits about .08 and not operating commercially.


You entered this thread claiming that .04 in Illinois would trigger a USCG license problem as well as get a CDL holder busted even if they were not working under the authority of their license(s) at the time. Do try and get it straight and learn how to do basic research if you are going to go to the trouble of posting what you claim are "facts" that might effect those who read this stuff.

Clarification

In Illinois driving a commercial vehical on duty or off duty the limit is .04
driving a non commercial vehical off duty the limit is .08 but the commercial license will be discplined

My apologies
I stand corrected

There are proposed laws in the ligislature that are more incompasing "Boating under the influence laws" and linking them to driving and commercial licenses at this time, and COULD BE PASSED eventually. IF they DO and thats a big if, how those laws would effect (if at all) a C.G. License will be interesting at least for illinois.

Also on the topic;
Illinois has the lawful ability to suspend your privilages to operate within the state under an otherwise valid license of any jurisdiction, state or federal.
This means if you have an out of state drivers license or Coast Guard License, Illinois can Lawfully prohibit you from operating with in state boundaries but has (of course) no jurisdiction over operations out of state waters or highways cover by such license.

I would be interested to know if all states have similar abilities, especially when it comes to federal C.G. Licenses

I believe it's .08 in any vehicle can result in discipline. .04 in a private vehicle gets 'have a nice night sir'.