Click for Burger Click for Perko Click for Cross Click for Delta Click for Westport

Ady Gil (Earthrace) Sunk By Japanese Whalers

Discussion in 'YachtForums Yacht Club' started by Time, Jan 6, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Messages:
    3,311
    Location:
    9114 S. Central Ave
  2. wscott52

    wscott52 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    Messages:
    298
    Location:
    SE Florida
    He knew where the Ady Gil was. The Shonan Maru 2 is not that big at 170' and 490 tons. It also has very low sides aft of the bridge making it easy to see a small vessel approaching right up until it was under the very high bow.
  3. Time

    Time New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2007
    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    Indian Ocean
    I suppose a few other things you have to consider.
    Who was at the helm of the Ady gil, if it wasn't pete buthene i bet they don't have any form of skippers qual. Additionally having been on the boat a few times, its almost impossible to hear any directions while at the helm from someone on the back of the boat, and visibility is VERY poor. If as they claim they were just waiting for the ship to pass them by, the helm may not have been maned at all, atleast there may be been non-one in the chair, which means whoever was closest to the sticks may have had no idea what was going on visually or auidably. lengthening any response to engage full reverse and maybe leading to an accidental ahead as can be seen in the propwash in the video. I suspect that this is the case as ady gils' straight line performance is pretty good so if the course change had been detected i suspect if they had hit full ahead or full back they would have escaped without issue.

    I'm backing that it was a case of inexperience and poor organisation on the part of the ady gil, in terms of thier ability to respond. I'm also betting that the Whalers were trying to intimidate the Ady Gil and having seen the performance of the Ady gil were banking on expecting it to be able to get out of the way... Frustration does funny things to people.

    Food for thought.


    Time.
  4. Time

    Time New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2007
    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    Indian Ocean
    After looking at this Video again: View from Bob Barker

    The video conveniently starts when the Japanese Ship appears to be already turning, which would mean that the whalers actions were not nearly as scinister as they appear. It would seem to add weight to the idea that Ady gil was cruising around the bow of the whaler, who took action to aviod a colision, when the SS chisel sub chopped throttles and ended up in the corrected path of the whaler... again inexpereince or stupidity perhaps at play.

    time.
  5. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2006
    Messages:
    1,166
    Location:
    Gold Coast Australia
    Whalers

    HENNING & others: You say Sea Shepherd is breaking the law and are PIRATES. Consider this: The Japanes Whalers are BREAKING the law openly and with TOTAl disregard. They are criminals but too powerful for our lame politicians to take on!
    You are quick to call others idiots. So often in History it is the people who stand up, often alone and to be ridiculed, who are later lauded as couragious people who changed our world for the better,e.g:
    The first people who tagged & released Marlin.
    Banning Great white and Nurse shark slaughter.
    Protecting the Ozone layer by banning many everday chemicals.
    Banning smoking in offices/restaurants.
    Stood up for embargo against Aparthied S. Africa.
    many many more examples
    Beside their seamanship, these guys have GUTS!!! Yes Paul is over the top. But at least he is doing something more than collecting $$$ like Greenpeace. I have been to Japan a few times. They are good/bad people like all of us, BUT, they FOLLOW their leaders. Eat anything that moves, often still alive. Have you seen the dolphin slaughter? They call this "TRADITION" as if it legitimises this, but then so was beheading underlings for raising their eyes at nobles. This murder, cruel & slow must stop in this modern age.
  6. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2009
    Messages:
    940
    Location:
    Ft Lauderdale FL
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not backing the whalers and as I said, I support Paul in his efforts. However, the Japanese are not breaking any law, as there is no Law for them to break. They are on the High Seas, they belong to no one and are only guarded by conventions to which nations are either signatory or not. It is up to those nations to write and enforce laws upon those vessels flying their flag. The Japanese are not signatory to these conventions, similar to how the US is not signatory to Kyoto, therefor Americans aren't subject to the international carbon taxing schemes. If they were actually breaking a law or even a convention to which they are signatory, then nations Navies could take this on, but they can't. There is no legal auspice under which to go after them which is why Paul says f- em I'll go after them as a pirate.

    Someone mentioned "dramatic", yes, it is, and that's the point.
  7. wscott52

    wscott52 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    Messages:
    298
    Location:
    SE Florida
    Actually the japanese are, at best, skirting the law. They are members of the International Whaling Commission and signatories to the International Convention for the Regulation of Whaling. The IWC issued a moratorium on commercial whaling in 1986. The IWC left open the right for some whaling to be conducted for research into whales for the purpose of furthering the species. This is why the japanese whalers prominently display the "RESEARCH" banners on the sides of their ships. When asked to stop or restrict their activities the japanese say, "So sorry, no can do". Everyone knows it's a commercial harvest but since the japanese maintain the subterfuge that it's for research it's alllowed to continue. Realistically there's no other option since the IWC has no enforcement capability.

    Even though the japanese are in the wrong the actions of the Sea Shepherds are still criminal.
  8. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2006
    Messages:
    1,166
    Location:
    Gold Coast Australia
    Criminals

    Hi HENNING, good to hear again you don't support whaling!
    The Japanese whalers are in the Southern Ocean "whale sanctuary", which falls in Australia's Antarctic Territory waters. They ARE in fact breaking the law, just justify it with BS "Research." Unfortunately Aus has a weak hypocrite environment minister.
    If the Japanese decided to go crab fishing off Dutch Harbour, out of season, claiming it was for "research" how long would it take for you and others to sail north and ram the crap out of them?
    I have an idea to slow these barbaric people down: harpoon the already dead whales with a mad cow serum, the Japanese are VERY touchy about this, ask the US beef produces how long it took to get their product back on the Japanese shelves.
    Beside the sentimental side of this (Dolphins & whales) it is also the blatant lie of the whole issue. They BRIBE poorer members of the Whaling commission everytime there is an important vote. As you said K1WI and embargo is not practical (I drive a Toyota...ha!) and have a few big spending Japanese clients, but SHAME is an incredibly strong weapon on a proud people. We can deliver that in spades if there was a unified effort.
  9. Time

    Time New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2007
    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    Indian Ocean
    The legalities are where it gets very grey.
    It wasn't until well into the 50's that Antarctica had been totally mapped and some 42% was claimed by Australia under the international antarctic treaty. Which does not give a country sovereign rights (ie defending the territory) and as such the land Australia claims has never been recognised as theirs.
    Also the IWC has sanctioned the hunt so it is "legal" in those terms. However while the IWC effectively "owns" the wales that may be in an internationally recognised sanctuary and can grant rights to do research on them...they can't grant access to the actual sanctuary...which at this stage is not really Australian territorial waters and not really international waters..meaning no-one has control and the idea of a sanctuary is only as solid as the sovereign rights of Australia or an entities willingness to protect an international sanctuary.
    Sea shepherd claims to act within a clause which allows a civilian entity to "protect" a sanctuary if the responsible government does not (wow this starts to get very messy about now, which government?). While no definition of protection is given, presumably a civilian entity must have to act in accordance with international maritime law... something sea shepherd has certainly overstepped before.

    So a few questions remain:

    Is Japans act of catching whales legal?
    Yes, the IWC gave them permission.

    Is where they are fishing for them legal?
    It would be an awful big risk for Australia to pursue this in international court,
    as to loose would mean complete rejection of Australian rights to Antarctic and void the Antarctic treaty sparking a new land grab not to mention the economic outfall of "upsetting" a major trading partner. Seeing as Australia does not technically have sovereign rights in Antarctica...they probably would loose an application to prevent japan from whaling in "their" waters.

    Is what Sea Shepherd doing legal?
    depends who actually controls the area and what is technically deemed to be "protection" of a sanctuary.

    These are the reasons this issue has been unresolved for so long.
    It doesn't help that the IWC alllows votes from low socioeconomic countries that are supported by aid from Japan and have had whaling as part of their culture.

    Time
  10. C4ENG

    C4ENG Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2006
    Messages:
    581
    Location:
    Ft Lauderdale
    I would had almost believed what you had to say in your postings, but after a comment like this.. I question your credibility.
  11. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2002
    Messages:
    20,626
    Location:
    South Florida
    C4,

    Kafue tends to be a little tongue-in-cheek. Don't harpoon him just yet. ;)
  12. Kafue

    Kafue Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2006
    Messages:
    1,166
    Location:
    Gold Coast Australia
    Mad Cows and Bulls

    Thanks Carl,
    Anyone who took that Mad Cow Serum as serious believes the Bert 630 hit a whale!
    I am serious about the barbarism of any group making a creature suffer unnecassarily, including Aussies who rip Joeys (baby Kangaroos) out of shot mothers pouches and batter them to death.
    Paul Watson is EXTREME out of frustration at the legalities pointed out by "Time". The law is an ASS. BTW Time, thanks for the clarification.
    Being right does not mean much in this world, ask any victim of Wall St. or the GFC! So people resort to anger and someone gets hurt. I go back to my first suggestion...SHAME the Japanese. They are (Generalisations are dangerous) on the whole an extremely polite, proud and sensitive people. But like all of us, force them and they will form a corral and defend themselves against the mass. The greatest attack on the whalers needs to come from the JAPANESE people. Paul, use your funds to Buy a few whaler ships and turn them into "Extreme Whale watching Expedition" ships from Japan.
  13. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2009
    Messages:
    940
    Location:
    Ft Lauderdale FL
    Australia does not have the economic strength to take on Japan, and Japan knows it. It was funny, Kangaroo Island had a Koala population problem. The were going to cull them, but the Japanese told them "If you do, we'll boycott Australian tourism". So they had a multi million dollar project to catch female Koalas and sterilize them. The mistake was they should have offered hunting tags at $15k a piece. They would have sold all of the tags to the Japanese and made a million or two.

    Attached Files:

  14. ArcanisX

    ArcanisX Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2009
    Messages:
    313
    Location:
    Tel Aviv.
    The problem I used to have with agressive protesters is that at some point, it becomes impossible to understand where they are better then the thing they claim to be against.

    The Japanese fishing practices have sparked tensions many times (for example, it is an old known problem of russian waters at far east. there's been russian border patrol ships shooting, and stuff). But I guess there is a reason why civilisation widely abandoned an "eye for an eye" retribution logic in favor of more... sophisticated solutions. Now when people say and do, essentially, in the manner of "hey you are barbarians to whales, so we, self-proclaimed civilized people, are going to be barbarians to you", I cannot help but wonder if that is going to help or hurt the whole mess.
  15. revdcs

    revdcs Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2007
    Messages:
    498
    Location:
    Fowey in Cornwall
    I would like to see whaling ended forever and I have no problem with consenting adults putting themselves in harms way to try to stop the trade. But if that is going to work, they have got to be more honest and transparent. Yes, shock publication has worked in the past, but not now, there are too many people willing to spend time and energy to find the truth – as we are doing here.

    I’ve watched this quite a few times now and it seems to me that at the point of impact the whaler’s props have stopped and she is turning to port – which of course will be delayed by the lack of propulsion. The Ady Gil however, puts on a spurt of forward motion, placing herself in front of the whaler’s bow.

    I have to admit that at a point before the impact, the whaler appears to move to starboard but that changes so quickly that I think it is simply wave action and the (probably deliberate) positioning of the camera.

    Someone mentioned that the Ady Gil might be trying to force the ‘give way’ rule – but surely that would be negated by ‘might has right’ - especially in close quarter manoeuvring?
  16. ArcanisX

    ArcanisX Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2009
    Messages:
    313
    Location:
    Tel Aviv.
    And how about them putting others in harms way, as can be seen on recordings of their earlier activities?
  17. saltysenior

    saltysenior Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2009
    Messages:
    289
    Location:
    stuart,fl.
    this might be sillier than the ''bouy theory''.....but could this collision be a planned photo op gone bad....
  18. wscott52

    wscott52 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    Messages:
    298
    Location:
    SE Florida
    They were filming it from the MV Bob Barker so they must have expected something to happen. They were new to the boat and as others have pointed out they seem marginally competent at best so it seems like a strong possibility. Looking at the video as bizarre as it seems it almost looks to me like they rammed the Shonan Maru on purpose. Maybe they didn't understand how fragile their new toy was or maybe for some reason it wasn't living up to their expectations and they thought destroying it in a spectacular manner that would make the whalers look bad was the best way to get rid of it. When you're dealing with crazies sometimes it's hard to understand their motives.
  19. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2009
    Messages:
    940
    Location:
    Ft Lauderdale FL
    You're not getting it, the entire operation was a photo op. Everything they do is about publicity. They know that is their most effective tool. It didn't go bad, it went as well as they could have hoped for. It gained publicity and nobody got killed. He drove that little light weight high power boat into that steel boat. Whether he did it on accident or purpose, the video clearly shows ahead thrust preceding and at the time of collision. The boat was free and of limited usefulness outside of its custom designed and built purpose. This event will probably have more impact on their goal than the vessel operating could.
  20. Henning

    Henning Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2009
    Messages:
    940
    Location:
    Ft Lauderdale FL
    But...but...carbon fiber is supposed to be stronger than steel...:rolleyes: :p
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.