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Adventures in boat shopping

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by RossC, Jun 20, 2023.

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  1. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Yes. Same tank, same hoses. Connects right in. Only other plumbing is connecting the hose where the vac pump used to be. Easy.
  2. RossC

    RossC Member

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    Seems like the way to go. There is a little bit of the classic boat smell. I figure sewer hoses are original. If I’m going to go through the whole system and replace hoses, might as well get rid of the VF.
  3. RossC

    RossC Member

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    Same size hose from the toilet to the tank, or smaller ?
  4. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    I didn’t change the hoses so same size as VF but with the elegance you can use smaller hoses, 1” I think.
  5. ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Senior member

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    I guess... but you'll have to source electricity, so it's not like a perfectly simple swap.

    Even though I'm not a big fan, at least the VF system seems to be semi-easily maintained.. sorta kinda... as I'm learning, as we speak. I'm not sure our changing to electric flush would be enough improvement to be worth the work. At least not yet...

    We had professional guys do a full service on ours while we were in Ft. Myers waiting for engine work to finish... and their work included changing all the sanitation hoses. All good.

    And now (2 years later) we're faced with a broken bellows in a vacuum generator, a part that wouldn't have been replaced during a normal service... but it looks like a relatively easy fix. The guys down in FL removed the two vac-gens to do the duckbill work outside the boat... and I'm following that hint too. Quick (relatively) disconnect of the two hoses, quick disconnect of the 24V, up on deck, didn't take too long. Awaiting parts.

    -Chris
  6. RossC

    RossC Member

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    Since the same hoses can be used, I guess I can change the sewer hoses and see how it goes. System seems to be OK other than the classic boat smell, which isn't as bad as some we've looked at. Tank vent filter probably needs changing also. I do agree that maintenance on the VF seems to be easy and cheap.

    The Vac generators are all the way at the stern near the holding tank and toilets are up front. Has to be 25' - 30' hose run. What's the typical hose used when replacing? Do thy use flexible PVC?
  7. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    The only reason to pull the whole thing on deck to replace duckbills is to bill more hours to the customer. I ve replaced countless sets of DB over the years and never pulled the pump or vac gen. It’s a 15 minutes job, max.

    the bellows need to be replaced every 8 to 10 years. It’s a messy failure as they usually squirt “stuff” all over. Cheap and easy too so if you re going to pull the whole enchilada to do the DB, you may as well replace the bellow if more than 5 years old

    the electrical is easy unless the builder placed the vac pump far away. I m trying remember the instal guidelines but I think there a maximum distance between the heads and the vac gen. Many builders put a “night” switch in the head compartment to turn off the system at night. I ve seen that on SRs. If so you could pull power there unless the wire run is too long and the wires too thin.
  8. ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Senior member

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    I think our guys used Odorsafe, which is probably what Dometic recommends. I've used Raritan's Saniflex in a different (electric) installation, very flexible, very easy to work with.

    I've read PVC -- with flexible couplings where necessary -- can be pretty good, but I've not actually done that.

    You may find holding tank treatment with a decent aerobic product (NoFlex, for instance) and changing the vent filter may solve everything "enough" (at least), maybe not much else really required.

    -Chris
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2023
  9. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Black water hoses go from cost reduced to nose bleed expensive.
    The white PVC will work but start stinking again in a few years. Pending any low spots that captures water. In that length, you will have a few. Extra rinsing is not going to help much.
    Oh, also, the black water hoses should always have a natural down hill path. Just level barely does it. Never up hill even a little.
    This is where the VF may have an advantage, less water remains in the hoses. Is seems to scavenge the hoses a lil better to the vacuum generator.

    IMO, the better (expensive) and up, black water hoses is where to start.
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2023
  10. ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Senior member

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    Yeah, I think I could probably replace the bellows in situ, but... it's my first time, and "down there" isn't as easy to work in. The duckbills in this particular (guest) unit look like brand new... likely since it's not used much, guests are rare. In fact, I wouldn't be leaping all over this task so quickly except we actually have a guest, for a change.

    -Chris
  11. RossC

    RossC Member

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    I think in this SR it would be easier to remove the vac gens for service. They are at the stern. One stbd and one port behind the exhaust. If I wanted to make something inaccessible this is where I would put it. This why I was thinking of just upgrading. If I pull the VG's and the long toilet to VG hoses for service, there's not much left. While the typical wear items like DB's, bellows and seals are not expensive, a complete toilet rebuild can be half the cost of a new electric toilet. Surveyor also noted some cracking (but not leaking) black sewage hoses in the machinery space.
  12. RossC

    RossC Member

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    Yikes....$31/foot for 2" Headhunter hose from Environmental Marine. Looks like private label flex PVC.
  13. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Get a tissue for that nose bleed. You just got face punched.
  14. RossC

    RossC Member

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    So can I use a Y in the hose from the toilets (electric head) then a single run to the tank? Or is a separate hose from each head required?
  15. RossC

    RossC Member

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    More like kick in the nuts. West Marine has "no odor" toilet hose for half the cost, but still not as cheap as flex PVC.
  16. RossC

    RossC Member

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  17. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Each head to a tank connect will offer a better job and less issues in your future.

    IMO, stay aweigh from the PVC hoses for a long lived installation. Even the better hoses of this type will sweat, just later down the calendar.
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2023
  18. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Look at the worst marine Poly X hose.
    Ordered 50' for my buddy last month.

    Mechanics hit & kick below the belt.
    Yards bend you over.
    Electronic techs, well they at least use KY.
    Plumbing these days, it's a punch.

    717F9477-4876-4B1A-8DC8-E165A98BD35A.jpg

  19. MBevins

    MBevins Senior Member

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    You're stretching over to that "other" forum we sometimes look at. I believe Peggy is a believer in the saniflex.
  20. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    The downside of VFs using less water is that the stuff is more concentrated and will result in increased build up in the hoses. That happened on my 53 to the point where flushing became difficult. And yes it’s obviously fresh water flush.

    I considered rebuilding my VFs but by the time I added all the parts incl vac switches, bellows, ball valves and seals, there wasn’t much difference with the Elegances.