3D rapid conceptual design

Freeship.org

Lars is right, a good 3D modeling for construction purposes (not just for nice pics) are really difficult to do.

There is a nice free opensource program for ship hull design:
at freeship.org. It can export 2D/3D polylines, IGES etc...

I saw Lars put one of my renderings in this thread . The model is half finished due to the projects I do now.

Best regards,


JMR

rendering 3D

http://www.tsoe.com/neu/yachts.htm
and
http://www.tsoe.com/neu/ships/inspirations/SuperSail.jpg (5000 pix w)
http://www.tsoe.com/neu/ships/inspirations/SuperMotor.jpg (4000 pix)
http://www.tsoe.com/neu/ships/inspirations/Megayachts.jpg (2000 pix)

all lightwave - all from photographs and plans in magazins, catalogs and the web - all from 2d to 3d - all after 15 years practice with the programs.
Constructing vessels and producing pictures is a significant difference!
(high- and most representative pics allways need a rendering-part and a finishing-part in a photoworking program, what ever you want to show at least).
For constructing with a 3D-program i would try to get in a state that the program doesn't bother me with it's hooks, edges, dissimilarities and features.

Excellent points TomTom.

In fact, that was my frustration with the 3D constructing (not rendering) program that I tried. I found that it was fairly easy to build up the initial "part" (or object). But very difficult to re-work that same part into a more complex shape. Due to those program "hooks, edges, dissimilarities" you pointed out. So needed to build up complex shapes by combining many smaller simple shapes. Which was rather counter-intuitive to my view.

If you know of a 3D constructing program that makes it easy to evolve a simple shape into a complex one, please let us know.

Kelly

Kelly,


did you already tried Freeship from freeship.org? I have tested this software and tried to import offset data into my 3d cad software, fits my section lines to those point clouds (bspline grade 3 and 1 segment) and fair this curves again. Upon those section lines I build my surfaces. That was the hull part. It takes about 1~2 hour for a rough fit and depending on hull type. If the hull already exist as 3d surface, that making the superstructre will take about 1 day (no window and any details or interior).

From my experience with Lars 30m Classical Yacht, it takes days to find out what kind of hull I have to build, since I am not a Naval Designer / Naval Engineer. If I have more information like ship plans / lines, that would my life easier ;-) A possibility to work with Lars gave me the picture how good it would be, if the 3DCAD Designer and the Yacht Designer work in the same office. Communication is the most important, so there would be no misintepretation.

I am still not happy whit the 3D surfacing I did and maybe the hull is still wrong :-(. What dou you think Lars?

Today I tried Lars method to draw 2D yacht renderings with a free software called Inkscape. Looks good :-D

Lars, do you use tablet graphic to make your sketch?



JMR

Here is one 2D drawings made with Inkscape and 2 quick modeling with a CAD software in 1 day (quality just for presentations).


JMR

Hi Jos,

I have tried tablets and I used to work with the mouse, but most of the time I just use my favorite Powerbooks built in tablet, the secret is to zoom in and out all the time...

On the 30 m Classic, yes the hull could have more flare in the bow. Something many yachts is lacking today, like Carinthia VII to take a well known example. But I can see you have added this on your latest drawings!

Working closely is a good thing, I was at my 3DCAD-designers office this afternoon to finish a design where we could avoid a few mistakes about to happen. But this is mainly since I work on Mac and he on PC, otherwise we could have exchanged all information online as well.

JMR - Sorry, but no I haven't gotten around to trying Freeship yet. Still licking my wounds from AC3D, or at least that will be my excuse for now. So those last views you posted were done with Freeship? They are certainly high enough quality for my purposes, and then some!

Kelly

Yes Kelly, I made the hull in Freeship. You can do everything upto the superstructure in Freeship. After finished the job export the data as Iges to Rhino for further detailing.

Lars, on Mac there is an integrated tablet? Could you show me?

With freehand I can make more naturally sketches. As you Lars, when I was still a young child I drawed ships. My father was a ship engineer and was once the Head of the biggest yard in Indonesia.

It is funny, because I am a mechanical engineer but most of my work have to do with ships, yachts...

Yesterday was the launching of K130, the new corvette of germany, at B+V.


JMR

Hi Kelly, dont give up because of A3bla bla. It is a povray modeller if I remembered and NOT a ship modeller.

Here is a screenshot of freeship. YOu can do stability calculations too. Have fun, cause its free

Lars, the 3rd drawing with the blue hull I send yesterday is not 3D, its like yours made in a vector graphic software.

cheers,


JMR

Another example of what you can do with freeship

AC3D is an entry level (cheap but not free) program for general purpose 3D constructions. Their library shows ship examples, but it does not have special functions for marine design. So far as I am aware, it is not a Povray modeler. Renderings with AC3D are very basic.

When I did look into Freeship I came away with the impression it was just for hull design. Which is not my main interest. I am not trying to compete with NAs. My interest is the superstructure. Rhino and CATIA are too expensive for my hobby. So I gave up on 3D and ended up back with a 2D program.

Oh well,
Kelly

I am afraid I can not help you further Kelly. I think for presentation purposes a 2D software like Freehand or Inkscape would be enough.

There is a review about Inkscape and Freehand Macromedia:

http://mikesalsbury.com/mambo/content/view/231/1

Thanks jmr. I had not even heard of Inkscape. Man, that is one thorough review!!!

Kelly

I don't sure if someday there will be only ONE CAD system suitable for the whole ship construction.

Some of my customers use NAPA for hull fairing instead NURBS with high and mid-range CAD. Maybe because they think in lines rather than in surfaces.

Even for building steelworks, they still think in 2D or 2 1/2 D.

For first presentation purposes I agree with Lars. A good artist should be able to show his potential customer his ability to draw his concepts in freehand (even no vector graphics).

It is different to see an impressive sketch and renderings made by an artist than a flat 3d renderings.

Hi Jos,

These days I must admit that I am too lazy to draw by hand, I rather make some 3D-shades on my 2D-renderings. But in the past it could happen that I was drawing a 3D-rendering from what I have designed in 2D. I found this early one, a 55 m yacht from 1992...

On the other hand, I often draw up details by hand in 3D, especially when talking to carpenters or mouldmakers.

/Lars

Hi Lars,

very impressive one! did you use curves templates like french curves for producing this sketch?

Yesterday I got some sketch from a designer friend of mine and told my self this is much more better than my 3D A0 renderings hanging on the wall of my customer in Hamburg.

I found the Marco Polo as a new era of yacht very impressive too. HDW also has a new styling concept for their large yachts too. The supperstructure should be made of bullet proof glas. May be you saw this in some of those fancy yachts magazine last 2 year.

Okay lets draw something new, fancy and metamorphosis


JMR

Lars,


here is a link of an article says that software weakens the ability of classical drawing skills:

http://today.reuters.com/news/artic...7Z_01_N29325110_RTRUKOC_0_US-ARTS-DRAWING.xml

My renderings were just made with a pencil and filled in with a pen, no other tricks. Max an hours work. As I always have the 3D-picture in my head when I work, it is not a problem getting it on paper if needed.

Interesting to read your link;
--------------------------------------
"The trick is to improve drawing to develop a solid foundation for digital skills", says Charles Pyle, director of the School of Illustration at the Academy of Art University.

"If you don't draw and think well, your art career will be short and unpleasant," Pyle says. "The basics serve the digital end and give the kids a vastly superior portfolio when they leave here."
--------------------------------------

If the designer doesn´t have a 3D eye and the engineers, shipyard owners and clients lack the same, it may explain some of the yacht designs that unfortunately have been built, lacking all proportions...

I blame it on the big money involved, brokers and shipyard managers just want the client to sign the contract. The emperors new clothes...

My view on Marco Polo; interesting as a rendering, scary as a real project!!